probiotics

[Maleko]

Do probiotics have any place in this diet?

RRM, do you or Wai ever take them?

Aloha!!

[RRM]

There are over 400 different bacteria in your intestines helping you out with your defense, the production of hormones, vitamins etc.
They need to be present in ratio's regulated by your body, and these ratio's will be different per person, and will be adapted to what is required.
So, other than by accident, there is NO way that a few bacteria put together in a supplement can help improve this delicate, ingenious and complex balance.

Regarding the perfect balance, more at one side of the balance is certainly not better by definition.
And suppose your bacteria-system IS out of balance (by consuming the wrong foods, medication etc), how do we know the supplement contains exactly that what has been decreased?

The best thing you can do, is to allow your body to do the regulations itself; its the only one 'how knows what is required'.
So, dont disturb it by taking supplements (incl probiotics), consuming the wrong foods, taking medication, sleeping too little etc.

[Jerry]

Even including this?
VRI BioMedical - ProTract

[RRM]

Do you have eczema?
Suppose it would be caused by an imbalance in the bacterial flora in your intestines; how do you know what bacteria exactly are lacking?
This would require medical analysis and subsequently a medical supplement containing precisely those lacking bacteria in the right dosage.
Moreover, the cause of this all would have been a malfunction in your intestinal regulatory system, and therefore this (and not the symptom: lacking bacteria) should be addressed.
The most common causes of intestinal regulatory issues: having taken antibiotics, or any other medication, or consuming the wrong foods.

[Maleko]

RRM,

Great answer. I agree 100%.

I sometimes wonder if the reason you both have so much common sense is that you aren't trying to sell this info. Seems that when money is involved, it tends to make one very rigid, egocentric, and slow to change. Mahalo!

[Kasper]

The best thing you can do, is to allow your body to do the regulations itself; its the only one 'how knows what is required'.
So, dont disturb it by taking supplements (incl probiotics), consuming the wrong foods, taking medication, sleeping too little etc.

A couple of people on this diet reported having candida (at least on the tongue).
In a healthy person width a bacteria-system which is in balance candida overgrowth would not happen.

Therefore I think that for many people, there body is not able to regulate itself regarding candida overgrowth.
(even when it is not disturbed by taking supplements (incl probiotics), consuming the wrong foods, taking medication, sleeping too little etc.).

Therefore, when such imbalances are present, I think it is wise to take more rigorous action than RRM advises.
You probably won't get your optimal gut flora balance by taking probiotics,
but you might get a balance where your body is better able to fight against overgrowth of pathogens.

And I think that if you achieve a balance width no overgrowth of pathogens, your body can (without any rigorous actions) regulate itself to the balance which is required (optimal) for the individual.

[RRM]

The best thing you can do, is to allow your body to do the regulations itself; its the only one 'how knows what is required'.
So, dont disturb it by taking supplements (incl probiotics), consuming the wrong foods, taking medication, sleeping too little etc.

A couple of people on this diet reported having candida (at least on the tongue).

Candida is naturally present in your body.
Candida overgrowth in people on this diet all were the result of having taken antibiotics previously.

[Kasper]

I don't think you get candida from this diet
But I'm talking about how to regulate your balance again when you have candida.
I don't think the action you describe are sufficient, and you need to take more rigorous actions to get your system in balance again.
As I described in my last post, probiotics could help.

[RRM]

I don't think the action you describe are sufficient, and you need to take more rigorous actions to get your system in balance again.
As I described in my last post, probiotics could help.

And why, exactly, would you (/the manufacturer) know better than your body what probacteria it needs in exactly what proportions?

[Kasper]

And why, exactly, would you (/the manufacturer) know better than your body what probacteria it needs in exactly what proportions?

I didn't say that.
I only say that some probiotics help width pathogens overgrowth. In fact, that's main role of most probiotics.
You probably won't get an optimal balance, but for some people, getting a balance without pathogen overgrowth, is already a big improvement.

And as this forum demonstrates, Wai diet alone is in many cases not able to cure candida.
So more rigorous action are needed.

[RRM]

I only say that some probiotics help width pathogens overgrowth. In fact, that's main role of most probiotics.

Of course, thats why they are produced inside your intestinal tract.

You probably won't get an optimal balance

Healthy people are not able to sustain the optimal balance?

Wai diet alone is in many cases not able to cure candida.

Does Maleko have Candida?
Wai diet is not a cure, as medication may be (destroying a parasite, for example).
Probiotics may be considered a medicin, though i dont know how effective it is.
Its your body only who knows what it needs in the intestinal flora.
And i dont think we should advice people to take certain medication, especially if they are not sick...
And yes, i do think that creating the right environment for your body (Wai diet) first
and then find out whether your body can recover all by itself (from Candida), is a better idea than simply taking probiotics.

[Kasper]

Healthy people are not able to sustain the optimal balance?

I think healthy people are able to sustain the optimal balance. And don't need probiotics.

Probiotics may be considered a medicin, though i dont know how effective it is.
Its your body only who knows what it needs in the intestinal flora.
And i dont think we should advice people to take certain medication, especially if they are not sick...
And yes, i do think that creating the right environment for your body (Wai diet) first
and then find out whether your body can recover all by itself (from Candida), is a better idea than simply taking probiotics.

Well, than we agree. That's exactly what I was trying to say.
There are also more natural way to ingest probiotics.
There is new evidence that fermented sauerkraut contain a wide variety of probiotics.
The peel of lychees contains a probiotic yeast.

[RRM]

Do probiotics have any place in this diet?
RRM, do you or Wai ever take them?

The best thing you can do, is to allow your body to do the regulations itself; its the only one 'how knows what is required'.
So, dont disturb it by taking supplements (incl probiotics), consuming the wrong foods, taking medication, sleeping too little etc.

A couple of people on this diet reported having candida...
Therefore, when such imbalances are present, I think it is wise to take more rigorous action than RRM advises.

This thread was NOT about candida.
And so was my advice to Maleko.

[Kasper]

Which point are you trying to make?
I never said that I think your advise to Maleko (read: healhty people) was wrong ...?

I only said: WHEN imbalances of the bacteria-system (like candida) are present, I think it is wise to take more rigorous action than RRM advises.
Because your advice in this thread for imbalances of the bacteria-system was:

And suppose your bacteria-system IS out of balance (by consuming the wrong foods, medication etc), how do we know the supplement contains exactly that what has been decreased?
The best thing you can do, is to allow your body to do the regulations itself; its the only one 'how knows what is required'.
So, dont disturb it by taking supplements (incl probiotics), consuming the wrong foods, taking medication, sleeping too little etc.

[RRM]

So, you think its better to take more rigorous action first,
instead of letting your body try to restore the balance first, by being on the Wai diet?

...in this thread for imbalances of the bacteria-system ...

This was not a thread "for imbalances of the bacteria-system".
The initial question was:
"Do probiotics have any place in this diet?"
... and Maleko asked this to me and Wai, NOT assuming that we have an imbalance.
"imbalances of the bacteria system" was a sidenote, not the 'sole', or even 'main' issue.