Fat versus sugar and insulin & diabetes

[Thomas]

Assuming that slightly too much energy is repeatedly consumed throughout the course of a day...

How much less burdensome is it to always consume sufficient fat with the sugars (versus insufficient fat), or does it make no difference with regard to insulin resistance?

[Thomas]

I guess what I meant is "assuming that in each meal you will be going over your energy needs..."

exhaustion of the insulin system will still occur even with sufficient fat?

[RRM]

Assuming that slightly too much energy is repeatedly consumed throughout the course of a day...

More than you need at that particular moment, yes.
More than the blood should contain; not necessarily.
The smaller your meals (and the more often you eat/drink), the less excess glucose needs to be stored (with help of insulin), mainly just replenishing lost blood-glucose.

How much less burdensome is it to always consume sufficient fat with the sugars (versus insufficient fat)

That really helps because particularly excess glucose that keeps on stimulating insulin secretion is very bad. This will not happen if that excess glucose is readily stored. If glycogen depots are full, it needs to be stored as bodyfat, and for this, you need lots of fatty acids. (to form triglycerides)
Without the fatty acids, the excess glucose will remain in the blood longer, keeping on stimulating insulin secretion.

[RRM]

exhaustion of the insulin system will still occur even with sufficient fat?

That depends on the size of your meals.
If most of the energy from your meal needs to be stored first (as in big meals), before gradually being reconverted into available energy, this will be a far bigger strain on your insulin system than consuming only small meals (far less conversions).

So, both small meals and sufficient fat are protective.

[Thomas]

Thanks that makes a lot of sense!

I was mainly curious about the glycogen receptors and their response to insulin. But, I guess sufficient fatty acids prevents these receptors from becoming resistant.

[RRM]

I was mainly curious about the glycogen receptors and their response to insulin. But, I guess sufficient fatty acids prevents these receptors from becoming resistant.

Oh, im sorry, I didnt know.
Actually, fat does not protect the glycogen receptors, because the fatty acids are essential in storing excess energy when the glycogen depots are already filled up.
Only small meals are protective regarding the glycogen receptors.
But why do you think you should be careful regarding these receptors? (its the pancreas that is the problem mostly)

[Thomas]

My thought is that because the brain does not require insulin for sufficient uptake of glucose, preservation of these receptors is extremely important.
Alheimer's and Parkinson's are related to death of neural tissue. I wonder if death of these receptors plays a role?

[Thomas]

As far as glycogen storage in the liver and muscles, this probably depends more on the presence of insulin as a glucose transporter.
But, Im sure that receptor health also plays a role.

Check out this study

[RRM]

Alheimer's and Parkinson's are related to death of neural tissue. I wonder if death of these receptors plays a role?

What is key in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, is death of receptors for neurotransmittere, such as for serotonine, dopamin and acetylcholin.
These receptors are destroyed by aggressive compounds that can 'connect' to these receptors.
They can connect to these receptors because part of their molecule is much alike the original neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamin etc), and they may have aggressive properties due to damaged caused upon proteins by heat: heterocyclic amines.
www.13.waisays.com/brain.htm
www.13.waisays.com/cooking.htm

[RRM]

(Taken from another thread)

Does anybody know how many molecules of glucose are contained in 1 gram of glucose/sugars?

And how many fatty acids are contained in 1 gram of dietary fat from olive oil, animal fat, etc.?

Given that redundant blood glucose (once the glycogen depots are full) can be stored ONLY if 3 dietary FA are available in the blood, I was wondering what the ratio of grams of dietary sugar vs. grams of dietary fat would be necessary to avoid triggering a prolongued insulin secretion, in an individual eating the SAD that tends to overeat, for him to not be at risk of developing insulin related ailments (pre-diabetes) and eventually type-2 diabetes?

Actually, what was said was: "can only cause diabetes in the relative absence of dietary fat", not 'in absence of dietary fat in the blood', as excess glucose is also converted into fatty acids, though in the meantime insulin release is over-stimulated, which is detrimental indeed.
So, the fat does not have to be absorbed from the food, but it is true that only the relative lack of dietary fat will make it possible to overstimulate insulin secretion; 'relative' in the sense that when always dietary fatty acids are in the blood the very moment there is excess glucose, immediate storage of triglycerides will prevent overstimulation of insulin secretion.

So, we cannot accurately estimate the amount of fat required, as there is also glucose>fatty acid conversion taking place in a state of glucose excess.