Questioning the Diet

[avalon]

Here's a linky:

http://members.shaw.ca/bodybuilding/Fat.html

A variation of this is the CKD, or Cyclic Ketogenic Diet. With this, you go 5 days without carbs, and 2 days with. This one is better for bodybuilders as the carb days add new life to the workouts, which is maintained almost until the next carb days. The first week is the worst here and after the first carb up you should feel great for the next 3-4 days. This method works well but not quite as fast as the "pure" ketogenic diet.

Ant-Wai but I like the alternating idea.

[Oscar]

It's just that I thought that the function of fat was mainly for situations just like that, while muscles have other purposes that I thought were valued higher by the body. It seems to me like the "fat system" isn't really that effective if muscle protein is still preferred over fat for stored energy, as muscles do so much more.

I look at it from the other side: we use both sugars and fats for energy. In a normal food situation we would store the sugars as glycogen and the fats as bodyfat, to be used relatively soon. Maybe because in our natural foods fats weren't so prevalent, the fat depots last longer than the glycogen depots. So the only thing we have to do is make sure we get enough carbs (and/or protein --> gluconeogenesis), which, starting from a full liver glycogen depot, can take 8-12 hours. We will also use the fat, but for fat energy. I think the body tries to balance the different needs to survive as long as possible.

[Wintran]

I look at it from the other side: we use both sugars and fats for energy. In a normal food situation we would store the sugars as glycogen and the fats as bodyfat, to be used relatively soon. Maybe because in our natural foods fats weren't so prevalent, the fat depots last longer than the glycogen depots. So the only thing we have to do is make sure we get enough carbs (and/or protein --> gluconeogenesis), which, starting from a full liver glycogen depot, can take 8-12 hours. We will also use the fat, but for fat energy. I think the body tries to balance the different needs to survive as long as possible.

Ah, you're probably right there. I think I got a bit too caught up with the function of fat as bodyfat to store energy, and forgot that fat is also essential for many internal functions of our bodies. Actually I think I've been reading too much on glucose metabolism lately and forgot about the importance of fat as a nutrient.

I think it's time for me to go to Wikipedia and refresh my knowledge on fat...

[Oscar]

LOL

[nick]

Here is some chatter/banter that I got about posting about fat and cooking in another forum.

Cooking does not create hydrogenated fats. Those are created by
extreme temperatures and conditions, far in excess of cooking.
This sounds like junk science, right, esca_lante? I'm surprised
Wai would say something this absurd. Usually each of her lies
have a certain amount of truth, but this is bogus. There is no
evidence cooking creates anything the body "can't cope" with.
If it did, the species would have died long ago.

Nevermind the "can't cope" with out of context statement.
I was just interested in the cooking aspect on fat. Fat can be altered due to heat. Perhaps by cooking you mean all types including meal cooking to larger scale cooking operation that may involve higher temperatures?


"Like protein and cholesterol, fatty acids can be damaged due to the influence of heat. Due to this damage, very often unsaturated fats become saturated. Therefore the percentage of essential unsaturated fatty acids to saturated fatty acids decreases due to food preparation."

Unsaturated fats can't become saturated or hydrogenated through
ordinary cooking. They might be oxidized slightly, but saturated
fats protect against this. It's wise to avoid/limit unsaturated
fats, esp polyunsaturated. They are very unstable and vulnerable
to damage from oxygen, light, or heat. Saturated are virtually
immune - esp coconut oil, ghee, and red meat.

Are oxidized fats unhealthy?
Is that similiar to hydrogenated fats?
What the difference between trans fats and hydrogenated?

Thanks RRM!

[RRM]

Cooking does not create hydrogenated fats.

Wai does not say that cooking creates hydrogenation.
This is what is said:

Due to the influence of heat and/or hydrogenation, some unsaturated fatty acids are transformed into so called trans-fatty acids.

Those are created by extreme temperatures and conditions, far in excess of cooking.

Not quite true.
A study has shown that even in non-hydrogenated oils trans fats will be formed at temps of 177 degrees C.
It is true that heated hydrogenated oils will contain much more trans fats, but heated non-hydrogenated oils will contain transfats as well. Daniel D.R. et al.
Processed, but non-hydrogenated cooking oils also already contain trans fats. Heckers H. et al

Unsaturated fats can't become saturated or hydrogenated through ordinary cooking.

Chemically, trans fats are not saturated fats indeed, but in nutrition science they are classified as saturated fats as they no longer qualify as (natural) unsaturated fats.

Perhaps by cooking you mean all types including meal cooking to larger scale cooking operation that may involve higher temperatures?

Yes.

Are oxidized fats unhealthy?

No, not the fats themselves, though oxidation does originate free radicals. Fats, however, are also converted into energy by oxidation inside the body.

Is that similiar to hydrogenated fats?

No, hydrogenation is a specific chemical process particularly evoked to make an oil less liquid. Hydrogenation makes an unsaturated fat saturated (or less unsaturated) as bonding to the extra hydrogen 'requires' the double bond (as only present in unsaturated fats) to become a single bond (so that the other half of the double bond is available for bonding to the hydrogen).

What the difference between trans fats and hydrogenated?

Hydrogenated fats dont need to be trans fats, hydrogenation of oil primarily results in natural (less unsaturated) fats.
Sometimes the hydrogenation does not make the unsaturated fat saturated (by 'adding' hydrogen), but only changes the positions of the atoms / the shape of the molecule. These are trans fats. Chemically they are still unsaturated, but they are listed/classified as saturated.