I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
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I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
Hello everyone. Recently, I had a blood test done and apparently it turns out that I have over a 300 cholesterol blood-level. Even worse is that my LDL is WAY higher than my HDL. The doctor was very concerned. He also told me that my liver enzymes were at 50 points, where they should normally be at around 40. He said that is an indication that my liver is struggling and starting to get “fatty”.
Considering I am only 19 years old, he had no idea how I got my cholesterol so high until I told him my diet. I am not doing the 100% strict Wai diet for acne, but am applying many principals that I have learned from reading her articles and these message boards. Probably the biggest change in my diet under the influence of Wai (and others) was the inclusion of much cholesterol foods. My diet is pretty simple. Most of my fat comes from raw butter, raw egg yolks and a bit of raw sour cream. I don’t eat hardly any olive oil and I don’t eat any nuts. I eat lots of fruit and I eat some steamed veggies (of course with butter).
I guess I had gotten a blood test a few years back before I started eating all this cholesterol and it showed “normal” cholesterol levels. I only started eating all this cholesterol a little over a year ago. Before I go on, and to avoid giving a false impression, I must say that my dietary behavior regarding cholesterol was influenced by many other schools of thought besides Wai’s, such as Weston A. Price, Kevin Tredeu, The Maker’s Diet, Ajenous Vonderplanits, and others. All of the above schools of thoughts promote cholesterol as a health food.
My mother and family are very concerned for my health and now it’s starting to rub off on me. Even though I have read many times that the conventional “cholesterol hypothesis” is wrong, I am beginning to worry. Now I’m not so sure. The power of suggestion is strong. The doctor says that I am in extreme risk for heart disease. On top of all this my sister is a nutritionist and she’s coming home soon. When she finds out she will think I have gone bonkers for letting my cholesterol get to over 300.
Would I be putting myself at risk by continuing the same habits that got my cholesterol to be so high? Particularly, I am concerned that My HDL is very low (around 40) compared to my LDL (around 260). I have read many places that the ratio should favor the “good” HDL over the “bad” LDL. But mine is the COMPLETE opposite. Of course, if my doctor is right about the elevated liver enzymes foreshadowing the development of a “fatty liver”, that does not sound so good.
I also found out that my body fat percentage is around 19%. Is that healthy, or could that be contributing to the high cholesterol levels. I don’t excersise at all because it’s winter and very cold. Also, in case it is of any relevance I should probably mention that I do not have a spleen due to an accident when I was 9.
Because I am not doing the exact Wai diet, it might be hard to evaluate my current situation, including risk factors for heart disease. As far as cooked foods, I may eat a little streamed veggies, and some popcorn from time to time. However, please note that all of the cholesterol I eat is raw. A couple of other questions: a) Could I be more at risk than your standard person doing the Wai diet because I eat butter instead of olive oil? b) Does cooked protein, like cooked cholesterol increase the chance of heart disease and or atherosclerosis? I ask this question because not so long ago I was cooking my egg whites and eating them with raw yolks. I just wonder if that could have contributed to my strange cholesterol levels. I would definitely appreciate any advice or opinions. Thanks!!!
Considering I am only 19 years old, he had no idea how I got my cholesterol so high until I told him my diet. I am not doing the 100% strict Wai diet for acne, but am applying many principals that I have learned from reading her articles and these message boards. Probably the biggest change in my diet under the influence of Wai (and others) was the inclusion of much cholesterol foods. My diet is pretty simple. Most of my fat comes from raw butter, raw egg yolks and a bit of raw sour cream. I don’t eat hardly any olive oil and I don’t eat any nuts. I eat lots of fruit and I eat some steamed veggies (of course with butter).
I guess I had gotten a blood test a few years back before I started eating all this cholesterol and it showed “normal” cholesterol levels. I only started eating all this cholesterol a little over a year ago. Before I go on, and to avoid giving a false impression, I must say that my dietary behavior regarding cholesterol was influenced by many other schools of thought besides Wai’s, such as Weston A. Price, Kevin Tredeu, The Maker’s Diet, Ajenous Vonderplanits, and others. All of the above schools of thoughts promote cholesterol as a health food.
My mother and family are very concerned for my health and now it’s starting to rub off on me. Even though I have read many times that the conventional “cholesterol hypothesis” is wrong, I am beginning to worry. Now I’m not so sure. The power of suggestion is strong. The doctor says that I am in extreme risk for heart disease. On top of all this my sister is a nutritionist and she’s coming home soon. When she finds out she will think I have gone bonkers for letting my cholesterol get to over 300.
Would I be putting myself at risk by continuing the same habits that got my cholesterol to be so high? Particularly, I am concerned that My HDL is very low (around 40) compared to my LDL (around 260). I have read many places that the ratio should favor the “good” HDL over the “bad” LDL. But mine is the COMPLETE opposite. Of course, if my doctor is right about the elevated liver enzymes foreshadowing the development of a “fatty liver”, that does not sound so good.
I also found out that my body fat percentage is around 19%. Is that healthy, or could that be contributing to the high cholesterol levels. I don’t excersise at all because it’s winter and very cold. Also, in case it is of any relevance I should probably mention that I do not have a spleen due to an accident when I was 9.
Because I am not doing the exact Wai diet, it might be hard to evaluate my current situation, including risk factors for heart disease. As far as cooked foods, I may eat a little streamed veggies, and some popcorn from time to time. However, please note that all of the cholesterol I eat is raw. A couple of other questions: a) Could I be more at risk than your standard person doing the Wai diet because I eat butter instead of olive oil? b) Does cooked protein, like cooked cholesterol increase the chance of heart disease and or atherosclerosis? I ask this question because not so long ago I was cooking my egg whites and eating them with raw yolks. I just wonder if that could have contributed to my strange cholesterol levels. I would definitely appreciate any advice or opinions. Thanks!!!
Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
You say that the cholesterol-containing food you eat is raw, but how long is that the case?Fairy Prince wrote:Probably the biggest change in my diet under the influence of Wai (and others) was the inclusion of much cholesterol foods.
Have you been eating generaous amounts of high cholesterol cooked foods in the past few years?
You "guess"?I guess I had gotten a blood test a few years back
You had a test, or not.
If you had a test, what were the exact results?
Indeed.Of course, if my doctor is right about the elevated liver enzymes foreshadowing the development of a “fatty liver”, that does not sound so good.
You maybe 'genetically' vulnerable to bad cholesterol (oxysterols).
Its too high for a guy, and is an indication that your diet is not perfect.I also found out that my body fat percentage is around 19%. Is that healthy, or could that be contributing to the high cholesterol levels.
The spleen contains essential protein regulating cholesterol efflux, so this may explain why you are more susceptible to bad cholesterol.Also, in case it is of any relevance I should probably mention that I do not have a spleen due to an accident when I was 9.
Yes; butter contains oxysterols.Could I be more at risk than your standard person doing the Wai diet because I eat butter instead of olive oil?
Yes, because dirty proteins precipitate in your arteries.Does cooked protein, like cooked cholesterol increase the chance of heart disease and or atherosclerosis?
Please from now on do the 100% strict sample diet, including raw egg yolks and have another test in 6 months.
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Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
I was %100 raw-vegan until about 1 year ago, when I got turned onto Weston A. Price and "traditional" mixed-raw diets. I started experimenting with certain whole cooked foods. I only cooked starches, veggies, and my egg whites (which I mixed with the raw yolks). But, when it came to cholesterol containing foods like milk, butter, cream, egg yolks etc, I always ate them raw. Over time, with the inclusion of these foods, I gained about 20 lbs. from being a raw-vegan. Probably the most cholesterol in my diet came from the raw butter, because I was using it as the main source of calories.RRM wrote: You say that the cholesterol-containing food you eat is raw, but how long is that the case?
Have you been eating generous amounts of high cholesterol cooked foods in the past few years?
I definitely had gotten a blood test before, because he compared it to a test that I had gotten sometime in the past. I don't know exactly when it was or the exact results, but I do know that he considered it to be "normal". I'll try to get the results and when exactly the test was done. I'll keep you posted.You "guess"?
You had a test, or not.
If you had a test, what where the exact results?
I just read on the internet that alcohol can cause liver enzymes to show up in the blood. I did drink a very moderate amount of alcohol in the last year in the form of raw beer. But it was REALLY moderate. I'm not sure if that could do it or not.Indeed. You maybe be 'genetically' vulnerable to bad cholesterol (oxysterols).
Not perfect in that I am eating more calories than I need? Which would make sense because its easy to eat allot of butter which is super calorie-dense and I don’t exercise much. More calories in than out. It's probably why I gained 20 lbsIts too high for a guy, and is an indication that your diet is not perfect.
O no. . When you refer to good and bad cholesterol, are you referring to HDL and LDL?The spleen contains essential protein regulating cholesterol efflux, so this may explain why you are more susceptible to bad cholesterol.
You mean that even RAW butter contains bad cholesterol, naturally? Is oxysterols the same as the harmful oxidized cholesterol that Wai speaks of in her book?Yes; butter contains oxysterols.
Yes, because dirty proteins precipitate in your arteries.
Please from now on do the 100% strict sample diet, including raw egg yolks and have another test in 6 months.
But these dirty proteins wouldn't elevate my blood cholesterol, correct? So you really think it is the raw butter that is causing this high LDL cholesterol? And raw egg yolks would not cause the same problems? You think that the eggs would not cause high LDL blood cholesterol even if I ate like 10 a day or more? Couldn’t even the eggs have bad cholesterol in them if the chickens eat some unnatural foods? And even organic eggs from the store (which is all I have access to) can be fed unnatural foods I think.
Thank you for you time RRM. It is really appreciated. =)
On a side note: to clarify about HDL/LDL: they are lipo-proteins, transporters of fat and cholesterol. There are also Chylomicrons and VLDL. What do they transport?
Protein, triglycerids, phospholipids, cholesterol in percentages.
1. Chylomicrons: 1.7 - 96 - 0.8 - 1.7
2. VLDL: 10 - 60 - 18 - 15
3. LDL: 25 - 10 - 22 - 45
4. HDL: 50 - 3 - 30 - 18
As we can see, LDL relatively transports the most cholesterol (45%) and HDL is next (18%). Likewise it will transport more of the oxysterols. So the problem doesn't lie in HDL/LDL itself, but the oxysterols they are transporting.
Protein, triglycerids, phospholipids, cholesterol in percentages.
1. Chylomicrons: 1.7 - 96 - 0.8 - 1.7
2. VLDL: 10 - 60 - 18 - 15
3. LDL: 25 - 10 - 22 - 45
4. HDL: 50 - 3 - 30 - 18
As we can see, LDL relatively transports the most cholesterol (45%) and HDL is next (18%). Likewise it will transport more of the oxysterols. So the problem doesn't lie in HDL/LDL itself, but the oxysterols they are transporting.
Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
That might explain the higher LDL/HDL ratio.Fairy Prince wrote:I gained about 20 lbs.
What you definitely need is BOTH reports, so that you can make clear comparisons.
For example: How were and are the numbers of chylomicrons and VLDL?
Ok, then the oxysterols (bad cholesterol indeed) are not the problem. (luckily)...raw ... Probably the most cholesterol in my diet came from the raw butter
And dont worry about the very moderate alcohol intake.
Not perfect in that its out of balance, which is probably due to the high fat intake, indeed.Not perfect in that I am eating more calories than I need?
Correct.dirty proteins wouldn't elevate my blood cholesterol, correct?
Since its raw, no.you really think it is the raw butter that is causing this high LDL cholesterol?
It might be the fat, or 'regulatory' problem specific for you.
No, raw egg yolks solely contain good cholesterol that is very effectively converted into bile acids when required.raw egg yolks would not cause the same problems?
Not in a way that it might have adverse effects. Then the blood (good) cholesterol level might be relatively high, but within margins that is safe.You think that the eggs would not cause high LDL blood cholesterol even if I ate like 10 a day or more?
Only if the hens are fed feedings containing powdered eggs, but even then the absorption rate (from feedings to hen) and subsequent deposition rate (from hen to egg) are very low.Couldn’t even the eggs have bad cholesterol in them if the chickens eat some unnatural foods?
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Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
My doctor did not even mention chylomicrons and VLDL, so I guess I have to ask him about that, or get the papers myself and look. When I find out, I’ll let you know.That might explain the higher LDL/HDL ratio.
What you definitely need is BOTH reports, so that you can make clear comparisons.
For example: How were and are the numbers of chylomicrons and VLDL?
By the first statement you seem to be saying that it is not the oxysterols in the butter that is causing the high LDL (which you are calling out of balance?)Ok, then the oxysterols (bad cholesterol indeed) are not the problem. (luckily)...
Not perfect in that its out of balance, which is probably due to the high fat intake, indeed.
But the second statement seems to be saying that it IS the butter (which you call "the high fat intake") that is causing the imbalance.
I am confused by these seemingly contradicting statements. Maybe I am misinterpreting something?
Or, if indeed you are saying that it is not the cholesterol in the butter that is causing the problem, are you saying that it is the high fat content alone? Which raises me to ask...?
But how is high fat "out of balance" isn't the Wai diet high in fat? Are you meaning to say that my diet could be out of balance because of too much dietary cholesterol from using raw butter as a replacement of cholesterol-free fats like olive oil, avocados and nuts?
Taken in context, by saying this, are you inferring that high LDL cholesterol is indeed bad, and can cause atherosclerosis?Since its raw, no.
It might be the fat, or 'regulatory' problem specific for you.
What happens to the excess cholesterol that the body does not need for bile acids. Does it end up in the blood?No, raw egg yolks solely contain good cholesterol that is very effectively converted into bile acids when required.
I'm a little confused. By saying "the blood (good) cholesterol" are you implying that all the cholesterol that shows up in the blood is good, or that by eating the cholesterol in raw eggs, the cholesterol in the blood would be un-oxidized, and therefore "good".Not in a way that it might have adverse effects. Then the blood (good) cholesterol level might be relatively high, but within margins that is safe.
If, when you refer to "good" and "bad" cholesterol as being un-oxidized and oxidized cholesterol, does it then having nothing to do with weather it is LDL or HDL? If so, can I assume then, that all the cholesterol in my blood is the "good" cholesterol, because all the cholesterol in my diet was raw?
So, then, the questions remain; what is a safe margin for blood cholesterol levels and how is it determined? Or, is the high LDL level in and of itself bad, even if it got there from eating "good" cholesterol such as raw butter, cream, and egg yolks.
I've been attempting to make sense of all these theories on cholesterol. Here is a very interesting controversial site of cholesterol and the "diet-heart" idea. http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
Here is an abstract taken from an article on the above site that is saying that diet has actually very little to do with blood cholesterol. What’s your take on this?
A reduction of animal fat and an increase of vegetable fat in the diet is said to lower the blood cholesterol. This is correct, but the effect of such dietary changes is very small. Ramsay and Jackson (37) reviewed 16 trials using diet as intervention. They concluded that the so-called step-I diet, which is similar to the dietary advices that are given nationwise by the health authorities in many countries, lower the serum cholesterol by 0 to 4% only. There are more effective diets, but they are unpalatable to most People.
If the theory in this article is correct, if I ate the same amount of calories as I do right now, only by replacing butter with olive oil, my cholesterol might only lower by 4%
the article goes on to say...
Studies of African tribes have shown that intakes of enormous amounts of animal fat not necessarily raises blood cholesterol; on the contrary it may be very low. Samburu people, for instance, eat about a pound of meat and drink almost two gallons of raw milk each day during most of the year. Milk from the African Zebu cattle is much fatter than cow's milk, which means that the Samburus consume more than twice the amount of animal fat than the average American, and yet their cholesterol is much lower, about 170 mg/dl (38).
According to the view of the Masai people in Kenya, vegetables and fibers are food for cows. They themselves drink half a gallon of Zebu milk each day and their parties are sheer orgies of meat. On such occasions several pounds of meat per person is not unusual. In spite of that the cholesterol of the Masai tribesmen is among the lowest ever measured in the world, about fifty percent of the value of the average American (39).
Shepherds in Somalia eat almost nothing but milk from their camels. About a gallon and a half a day is normal, which amounts to almost one pound of butter fat, because camel's milk is much fatter than cow's milk. But although more than sixty percent of their energy consumption comes from animal fat, their mean cholesterol is only about 150 mg/dl, far lower than in most Western people (40).
Full article: http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth3.htm
A lb of butterfat a day! Those tribesmen surely ate more cholesterol than even I do, but they have very normal cholesterol levels. So maybe my high cholesterol levels are in fact unrelated to cholesterol in my diet... Maybe my high levels are indirectly caused by my diet; because this cholesterol-rich diet was more caloric, it caused me to gain weight, therefore increased my body fat percentage which could be contributing to the high cholesterol. The tribesmen's normal cholesterol levels simply might be from them having normal body fat percentages.
I am just sorta brainstorming here. I'm really trying to figure this out. There is so much controversy over this subject that it’s a little mind boggling
Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
I indeed say its not the oxysterols (1), but it maybe the fat (2) that increased the LDL/HDL ratio. (and yes, non-raw butter contains both)Fairy Prince wrote:By the first statement you seem to be saying that it is not the oxysterols... But the second statement ... it IS ... "the high fat intake"...
It may not be, but it may be for you.how is high fat "out of balance"
Everybody is different, and every body tolerates different levels of intakes.
No.Are you meaning to say that my diet could be out of balance because of too much dietary cholesterol
No. Im saying that a higher LDL/HDL ratio may be a signal that you have a regulatory problem somewhere.are you inferring that high LDL cholesterol is indeed bad, and can cause atherosclerosis?
Not the LDL is bad, but its high level may be an indication that something is wrong.
It is still converted into bile acids, and then simply not reuptaken from the intestines.What happens to the excess cholesterol that the body does not need for bile acids. Does it end up in the blood?
The latter, given that you are on a raw food diet for a prolonged period of time. (as it takes time to remove the oxidized cholesterol)are you implying that all the cholesterol that shows up in the blood is good, or that by eating the cholesterol in raw eggs, the cholesterol in the blood would be un-oxidized, and therefore "good".
Exactly, not directly.If, when you refer to "good" and "bad" cholesterol as being un-oxidized and oxidized cholesterol, does it then having nothing to do with weather it is LDL or HDL?
There is a relation however, as oxidized cholesterol seems to be more readily transported by LDL.
You have never ever consumed a piece of cooked meat?If so, can I assume then, that all the cholesterol in my blood is the "good" cholesterol, because all the cholesterol in my diet was raw?
Then yes.
Take in account that there also are oxysterols produced by the body (which are good oxysterols, to make it even more confusing)
If your body has no regulation issues, they are absolutely safe when you consume no cooked animal food (and consume sufficient raw animal food).So, then, the questions remain; what is a safe margin for blood cholesterol levels and how is it determined?
As your LDL is high, there must be something else going on.
No. Its just a signal that something is wrong.is the high LDL level in and of itself bad,
That what is wrong is bad. not the signal.
My guess is that you have some kind of regulatory problem; regarding cholesterol or fat.
For most people its true to the extend that the body generally has no issues at all regulating the level of good cholesterol, regardless of what you eat.diet has actually very little to do with blood cholesterol. What’s your take on this?
It only may become a problem, and be very much related to diet if you have regulatory problems or prone to ingesting much oxysterols. (more than the average 8%)
Its not that hard actually.I'm really trying to figure this out. There is so much controversy over this subject that it’s a little mind boggling
In general, maintaining the right blood-cholesterol level is easy, regardless of your diet, and there may only be long term effects given the wrong diet.
But if you have some regulatory issues, it is very much directly diet related.
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Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
I got my test papers in the mail. It’s interesting to see the results of the test myself.
OK, here’s what it says for LIPID results:
Here is the liver test that revealed the high liver enzymes...
Results for various other tests that could be interpreted as abnormal:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently my Glucose Fasting was a little above the very high end of normal...
"Low BUN levels are not common and are not usually a cause for concern. They may be seen in severe liver disease, malnutrition, and sometimes when a patient is over hydrated (too much fluid volume), but the BUN test is not usually used to diagnose or monitor these conditions."
source:http://www.labtestsonline.org/understan ... /test.html
So then, by saying that it is more likely the fat in my diet that is the problem (my body not being able to regulate it), and not the cholesterol, then can I assume that replacing the butter(fat) with olive oil(fat), that it would NOT correct the high LDL? And, if indeed it is the fat, how in the heck do you solve this problem? Go on a low fat diet? Then you’re left with a bunch of sugars.
Maybe the healthiest way to solve this problem is for me to exercise more and decrease my body fat, while maintaining the same diet. Exercise is supposed to increase the HDL. Or maybe the high LDL is not a problem. As long as the cholesterol I eat is raw, the LDL would have no harmful oxysterols to transport. In this case, is there really a problem with having such a high cholesterol? Maybe the actions I would have to take to lower my cholesterol would be more harmful to me than the cholesterol itself. Sorta like the case with satin drugs. However, exercise just might be the most helpful and less damaging way to accomplish this, rather than a change in diet. If this article is correct, a change in diet (such as replacing animal fats with veggie oil) usually only amounts to a 4% decrease in cholesterol anyways: http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth3.htm
As I gain more understanding of this issue, I am trying to asses what should be done, if anything at all. If, indeed I am not more at risk for a heart attack, I don't know if having a high LDL even warents any change. And if it is a "regulatory" problem, it might not even be able to be helped. Let’s just say that it is caused by not having a spleen. How can that even be helped?
I still need to get the test results before that showed my cholesterol was "normal". If it was normal before a) my diet change and b) my weight gain), and now it is very high, that does suggest it was related to either or both of those 2 factors...
OK, here’s what it says for LIPID results:
- TEST RESULTS----------------------------------------------
TEST: Total Cholesterol
RESULT 316mg/dL
TEST: Triglycerides
RESULT 121mg/dL
NORMAL RANGE < 199
TEST: HDL Cholesterol
RESULT 46mg/dL
NORMAL RANGE > 40
TEST: LDL Cholesterol
RESULT 246mg/dL
Here is the liver test that revealed the high liver enzymes...
- TEST: Liver Test (ALT)
RESULT: 53U/L
NORMAL RANGE < 36
Results for various other tests that could be interpreted as abnormal:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently my Glucose Fasting was a little above the very high end of normal...
- TEST: Glucose Fasting
RESULT: 100mg/dL
NORMAL RANGE: 60 - 99
- TEST:Kidney (BUN)
RESULT: 7mg/dL
NORMAL RANGE: 10 - 20
"Low BUN levels are not common and are not usually a cause for concern. They may be seen in severe liver disease, malnutrition, and sometimes when a patient is over hydrated (too much fluid volume), but the BUN test is not usually used to diagnose or monitor these conditions."
source:http://www.labtestsonline.org/understan ... /test.html
Thanks for clarifying.RRM wrote:I indeed say its not the oxysterols (1), but it maybe the fat (2) that increased the LDL/HDL ratio. (and yes, non-raw butter contains both)Fairy Prince wrote:By the first statement you seem to be saying that it is not the oxysterols... But the second statement ... it IS ... "the high fat intake"...
It may not be, but it may be for you.how is high fat "out of balance"
Everybody is different, and every body tolerates different levels of intakes.
No.Are you meaning to say that my diet could be out of balance because of too much dietary cholesterol
No. Im saying that a higher LDL/HDL ratio may be a signal that you have a regulatory problem somewhere.are you inferring that high LDL cholesterol is indeed bad, and can cause atherosclerosis?
Not the LDL is bad, but its high level may be an indication that something is wrong.
So then, by saying that it is more likely the fat in my diet that is the problem (my body not being able to regulate it), and not the cholesterol, then can I assume that replacing the butter(fat) with olive oil(fat), that it would NOT correct the high LDL? And, if indeed it is the fat, how in the heck do you solve this problem? Go on a low fat diet? Then you’re left with a bunch of sugars.
Maybe the healthiest way to solve this problem is for me to exercise more and decrease my body fat, while maintaining the same diet. Exercise is supposed to increase the HDL. Or maybe the high LDL is not a problem. As long as the cholesterol I eat is raw, the LDL would have no harmful oxysterols to transport. In this case, is there really a problem with having such a high cholesterol? Maybe the actions I would have to take to lower my cholesterol would be more harmful to me than the cholesterol itself. Sorta like the case with satin drugs. However, exercise just might be the most helpful and less damaging way to accomplish this, rather than a change in diet. If this article is correct, a change in diet (such as replacing animal fats with veggie oil) usually only amounts to a 4% decrease in cholesterol anyways: http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth3.htm
Could it be that my body has a problem regulating how much excess bile acids are reuptaken from the colon. If this were the case, then it would be the cholesterol specifically that is the problem, and not just the fat in the my diet.RRM wrote:It is still converted into bile acids, and then simply not reuptaken from the intestines.Fairy Prince wrote:What happens to the excess cholesterol that the body does not need for bile acids. Does it end up in the blood?
So, as long as my LDL has no bad oxysterols to transport, the LDL is not directly harming me...RRM wrote:The latter, given that you are on a raw food diet for a prolonged period of time. (as it takes time to remove the oxidized cholesterol)Fairy Prince wrote:are you implying that all the cholesterol that shows up in the blood is good, or that by eating the cholesterol in raw eggs, the cholesterol in the blood would be un-oxidized, and therefore "good".
Exactly, not directly.If, when you refer to "good" and "bad" cholesterol as being un-oxidized and oxidized cholesterol, does it then having nothing to do with weather it is LDL or HDL?
There is a relation however, as oxidized cholesterol seems to be more readily transported by LDL.
This would almost seem to suggest that having a high LDL while eating a RAW food diet could have positive results because the high LDL would be a greater mechanism for transporting all the healthy oxysterols created by your own body, and at the same time would have no unhealthy oxysterols to transport.RRM wrote:You have never ever consumed a piece of cooked meat?Fairy Prince wrote:If so, can I assume then, that all the cholesterol in my blood is the "good" cholesterol, because all the cholesterol in my diet was raw?
Then yes.
Take in account that there also are oxysterols produced by the body (which are good oxysterols, to make it even more confusing)
Ok, then if my high cholesterol is just a sign that something else is wrong, it doesn't mean I am at increased risk for heart disease as long as I only eat raw cholesterol? And, can we be sure that the high LDL means something is wrong, or could it be that my body is making it that way on purpose. Could it even be a good thing?RRM wrote:If your body has no regulation issues, they are absolutely safe when you consume no cooked animal food (and consume sufficient raw animal food).Fairy Prince wrote:So, then, the questions remain; what is a safe margin for blood cholesterol levels and how is it determined?
As your LDL is high, there must be something else going on.
No. Its just a signal that something is wrong.is the high LDL level in and of itself bad,
That what is wrong is bad. not the signal.
My guess is that you have some kind of regulatory problem; regarding cholesterol or fat.
For most people its true to the extend that the body generally has no issues at all regulating the level of good cholesterol, regardless of what you eat.diet has actually very little to do with blood cholesterol. What’s your take on this?
It only may become a problem, and be very much related to diet if you have regulatory problems or prone to ingesting much oxysterols. (more than the average 8%)
RRM wrote:Its not that hard actually.Fairy Prince wrote:I'm really trying to figure this out. There is so much controversy over this subject that it’s a little mind boggling
In general, maintaining the right blood-cholesterol level is easy, regardless of your diet, and there may only be long term effects given the wrong diet.
But if you have some regulatory issues, it is very much directly diet related.
As I gain more understanding of this issue, I am trying to asses what should be done, if anything at all. If, indeed I am not more at risk for a heart attack, I don't know if having a high LDL even warents any change. And if it is a "regulatory" problem, it might not even be able to be helped. Let’s just say that it is caused by not having a spleen. How can that even be helped?
I still need to get the test results before that showed my cholesterol was "normal". If it was normal before a) my diet change and b) my weight gain), and now it is very high, that does suggest it was related to either or both of those 2 factors...
Re: I am 19 with 300 cholesterol. Am I at risk?
Generally considered, your total cholesterol, LDL and liver enzymes are indeed high, and your triglycerides and HDL normal.Fairy Prince wrote:My doctor suggested to me that everything was normal except for the liver enzymes and the cholesterol levels
Your liver may have some problems.
If fat was the cause?can I assume that replacing the butter(fat) with olive oil(fat), that it would NOT correct the high LDL?
No.
IF fat would be the problem (for you), then decreasing your fat intake would be a sensible thing to do.if indeed it is the fat, how in the heck do you solve this problem? Go on a low fat diet? Then you’re left with a bunch of sugars.
There is nothing wrong with sugars if you manage to take them in the right amounts at the right time.
But as the test results show, fat is not the problem for you (as your triglycerides are normal.
IF diet would be the cause, given that there is some kind of malfunctioning in your body, it would be best to adapt your diet accordingly.Maybe the healthiest way to solve this problem is for me to exercise more and decrease my body fat, while maintaining the same diet.
But thats all IF.
So far, we are still SPECULATING.
Yes, in the sense that your body obviously has some problems keeping it at the right level. There are many possible causes (convertion into bile acids, inhibiting re-uptake bile acids etc)In this case, is there really a problem with having such a high cholesterol?
The high cholesterol is a symptom that something is wrong.
I disagree, as you may keep on feeding your body something it cannot properly deal with.exercise just might be the most helpful and less damaging way to accomplish this, rather than a change in diet.
Forget about what is generally true, as your body does not 'behave normally'.If this article is correct, a change in diet (such as replacing animal fats with veggie oil) usually only amounts to a 4% decrease in cholesterol anyways: http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth3.htm
We need to focus on your body specifically.
What exactly is the issue here? Thats what we need to find out.
Yes, it could be, but it also could be something completely different (as your liver).Fairy Prince wrote:Could it be that my body has a problem regulating how much excess bile acids are reuptaken from the colon.
At least the test says that its not the fat that causes the LDL level to be too high, but too much fat may be too hard to handle for your body in this situation. The fat overload has been too much calories for your body anyway, which is also a strain on your liver.
Exactly.So, as long as my LDL has no bad oxysterols to transport, the LDL is not directly harming me...
Actually, the body prefers to keep 'things' at optimum levels, and if they are not, it has some regulation issues. The LDL is an indication that something is not regulated properly.This would almost seem to suggest that having a high LDL while eating a RAW food diet could have positive results because the high LDL would be a greater mechanism for transporting all the healthy oxysterols created by your own body, and at the same time would have no unhealthy oxysterols to transport.
A high good cholesterol intake would not be a problem at all if everything was functioning normally.Ok, then if my high cholesterol is just a sign that something else is wrong, it doesn't mean I am at increased risk for heart disease as long as I only eat raw cholesterol?
A high level of good cholesterol in the blood however, is a risk, as even excess good cholesterol (not in the diet, but in the blood) may precipitate.
We cannot be totally sure, but I wouldnt bet on it; I have never read a study about that specifically.And, can we be sure that the high LDL means something is wrong, or could it be that my body is making it that way on purpose. Could it even be a good thing?
We should gather all the information that we can to assess the problem.As I gain more understanding of this issue, I am trying to asses what should be done, if anything at all.
We need the previous tests and new tests (chylomicrons and VLDL).
You also might have your liver examined, more specifically, as I suspect that there may be an issue with your liver, maybe as the result of the loss of your spleen.
Personally, I would advice not to eat butter anymore, and substitute it with a much lower amount of oil. As butter also contains cholesterol, that would also make it a lot easier on your body IF it has issues regulating cholesterol (and signs are that it has).
If your body has issues regulating cholesterol because of it, a lower cholesterol intake might be helpful. Eliminating the butter would help with that.Let’s just say that it is caused by not having a spleen. How can that even be helped?
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1: Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 2006 Nov;28(9):609-17. Links
Effect of fructose-rich high-fat diet on glucose sensitivity and atherosclerosis in nonhuman primate.
Suzuki M, Yamamoto D, Suzuki T, Fujii M, Suzuki N, Fujishiro M, Sakurai T, Yamada K.
HAMRI Company, Ltd., Ibaraki, Japan. masakazu@hamri.co.jp.
The present study examined a new model of impaired glucose tolerance (IGT) in a nonhuman primate fed with a high-fructose and high-fat (HFF) diet that contained 15% lard, 31% fructose, and 1% cholesterol. Female cynomolgus monkeys (age, 3-4 years) were divided into two groups: 1) those fed with normal control diet (N = 5) and 2) those fed with HFF diet (N = 5). In the HFF diet group, total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol in blood were significantly increased four- to fivefold when compared with the normal control diet group. No difference in the blood glucose, insulin, hemoglobin A1c, and triglyceride levels was detected between the two groups. Plasma levels of adiponectin, but not of resistin, were significantly higher in HFF diet at 20 weeks after HFF diet feeding. Oral glucose tolerance test was performed before HFF diet feeding and at 12 and 24 weeks after HFF diet feeding, but no significant changes in glucose sensitivity were observed even 24 weeks after HFF diet feeding. Twenty-four weeks after HFF diet feeding, accumulated foam cells and infiltrated macrophages were histologically detected in the thoracic aorta, in addition to a fatty liver. Interestingly, the pancreatic beta cells appeared normal in the HFF diet group. These results show that a chronic HFF diet does not induce IGT but can cause atherosclerotic lesions in conjunction with the generation of a fatty liver phenotype in cynomolgus monkey; however, the present results are very preliminary and they need to be validated in larger-scale studies in the future. (c) 2006 Prous Science. All rights reserved.
Effect of fructose-rich high-fat diet on glucose sensitivity and atherosclerosis in nonhuman primate.
Suzuki M, Yamamoto D, Suzuki T, Fujii M, Suzuki N, Fujishiro M, Sakurai T, Yamada K.
HAMRI Company, Ltd., Ibaraki, Japan. masakazu@hamri.co.jp.
The present study examined a new model of impaired glucose tolerance (IGT) in a nonhuman primate fed with a high-fructose and high-fat (HFF) diet that contained 15% lard, 31% fructose, and 1% cholesterol. Female cynomolgus monkeys (age, 3-4 years) were divided into two groups: 1) those fed with normal control diet (N = 5) and 2) those fed with HFF diet (N = 5). In the HFF diet group, total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol in blood were significantly increased four- to fivefold when compared with the normal control diet group. No difference in the blood glucose, insulin, hemoglobin A1c, and triglyceride levels was detected between the two groups. Plasma levels of adiponectin, but not of resistin, were significantly higher in HFF diet at 20 weeks after HFF diet feeding. Oral glucose tolerance test was performed before HFF diet feeding and at 12 and 24 weeks after HFF diet feeding, but no significant changes in glucose sensitivity were observed even 24 weeks after HFF diet feeding. Twenty-four weeks after HFF diet feeding, accumulated foam cells and infiltrated macrophages were histologically detected in the thoracic aorta, in addition to a fatty liver. Interestingly, the pancreatic beta cells appeared normal in the HFF diet group. These results show that a chronic HFF diet does not induce IGT but can cause atherosclerotic lesions in conjunction with the generation of a fatty liver phenotype in cynomolgus monkey; however, the present results are very preliminary and they need to be validated in larger-scale studies in the future. (c) 2006 Prous Science. All rights reserved.