joint health and flexibility

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Thu 01 Jun 2006 21:05

Does anyone here have any good links to resources on stretching or related topics?

I feel like keeping your joints health and your body flexible is important in feeling good. I spend time several times a week moving my joints through their full ranges of motion and stretching. I've read alot about yoga and think it has some benefits. I also have read a a lot about contortion.

I really admire dancer's and contortionist's muscular control and balancing abilities.

I used to be really stiff. I mean I couldn't touch my finger tips to the groud with out bending my knees. Now I can almost put my palm on the floor. I think losing our ability to move freely is equal to or worse than our decline in strength as we age.

As with nutrition there are many schools of thought on this. I hope to find the equivilant of waisays.com on this topic.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Fri 02 Jun 2006 18:01

johndela1 wrote:I think losing our ability to move freely is equal to or worse than our decline in strength as we age.

It is totally unecessary to become less flexible, as it is not the result of aging. You can be extremely flexible until the day you die of old age.
I used to be very stiff, until I realized I really didnt want to be stiff, and started stretching. Now I can do box and scissor plits. Its just a matter of practise, because absolutely everybody can do it, and can keep doing it forever.

For me the trick is to do the stretching is while relaxing; I do it when I watch TV. Sit on the ground with your legs as wide apart as normally possible, and touch hold your hands on the floor between your legs. Just press ahead a little until you feel 'locked up', and then wait while watching tv. After a few minutes you will realize that you are not that 'locked up' anymore, and you can press ahead a little more.
You can repeat this many times, but always take your time, as it doesnt work when pressing too hard. After a few repeats you will no longer be able 'to gain ground', which is the time to try to relax a while in that position, and then stop.
Do this every day and after a few months you will be able to completely lie down on the floor with your torso between your legs. Then its just a little step further to the split.

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Fri 02 Jun 2006 18:55

wow

yea, I stretch while watching TV, too... I always site on the floor, most always

some people believe by strenghthening the muscles at the far range of motion that your body will allow more movement and that if you are weak your body protects it self by not allowing you to go their

here are some links that discuss this:

http://www.meridianstretching.com/
http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch1.html
http://jjdev.com/fitness/brycometrics.html
http://jjdev.com/fitness/flexo.html

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Sat 04 Jul 2009 03:40

i found this link while exploring some ballet exercises.

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/doc ... tretching/

according to the info this man has compiled, stretching isn't as easy as just reaching for your toes. it's a complex science, but he lays it out very nicely so that you can develop your own stretching routine according to what kind of flexibility you desire. there are three different kinds if i remember correctly.

it's a bit of a long read, but if you're interested in stretching the best and most correct way possible, this is the source you want to study.

stretching the right way has really helped me to get more out of my workouts, for sure, and i feel more limber just walking around.

i feel like i'm always ready to jump into action! haha

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Sat 04 Jul 2009 03:42

i also recommend you skip the first few parts to the 'flexibility' section... unless you really want to know what's going on with you muscles when you stretch. some of it's interesting, but for me, was mostly over my head.

Post by **Oscar** » Sat 04 Jul 2009 13:31

Interesting.

How would you recommend stretching hamstrings?

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Sat 04 Jul 2009 14:46

standing; let your body hang, reaching for the toes, but not struggling to actually touch them. just let your body hang with your head doing the same thing. you should be looking at your knees. this stretch is actually more for your lower back, but it engages the hammys too.

the best way is basically the same thing only seated and doing this you actually do want to reach for your feet. if you can, wrap the palms of your hands around the bottom of your feet and pull your head into your knees and hold for anywhere from 15-30 seconds. you don't want to be feeling pain, a slight prickling sensation is ideal, but not necessarily needed to obtain a good full stretch.

remember though, it's best if you go through and stretch all of the body before physical activity. but if after your stretching routine you find that you need to stretch certain muscles again or if you forget a muscle group, it is ok to just do specific stretch.

if you want to obtain maximum flexibility, it's best to do stretching exercises between 2:30pm - 4pm. you peak at 4pm. stretching in the morning is usually very difficult and not really necessary. although you can if you feel you need it.

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Sat 04 Jul 2009 14:54

just to give an example of what a proper stretching routine encompasses, here's what i go through before and after each workout...

some of the names of stretches may not really tell you what i'm doing as you do have to research certain stretches because there is a certain order and certain kinds of stretches which you must do if you want to obtain maximum flexibility. i use the names i use because i know what they mean

it's too much to type out specific instructions for each stretch.

anyway...

Perform slow circular movements of the following joints, both clockwise and counter-clockwise, until the joint seems to move smoothly. You should rotate the following (in the order given, or in the reverse order):
1. fingers and knuckles
2. wrists
3. elbows
4. shoulders
5. neck
6. trunk/waist
7. hips
8. legs
9. knees
10. ankles
11. toes
Next you will want to perform 5 minutes of either jogging or jumping rope.
Now you will do static relaxed static stretches in the following order.
1. Cat (on hands and knees with a flat back and head hanging downward)
2. Bent over (don’t struggle to reach toes or floor, just allow your body to hang)
3. Spinal rotation while lying on back
4. Standing overhead side reach
5. Kneeling flat prayer position arms extended
6. Push chin into sternum. Tilt head back very slowly to full extent. Side to side, hold each.
7. Press forehead forward against hands
8. Pull head backwards into hands
9. Double palm temples on both sides
10. Press chin into OMG hands
11. Standing, extend arms in front of chest with hands facing up, down, out and in. Hold each.
12. Crucifixion poses.
13. Separately, hands behind head, reach down spine with assistance of the other arm. Hold each.
14. Standing, hold arms parallel behind you, holding one wrist with the other hand.
15. Lying down cross legged pull. Both legs. Repeat in seated position with hands bracing behind you.
16. Grounded static side kick stretch, both legs separately.
17. Quad stretches.
18. Calves stretch, leaning against wall or bar.
19. Ankle poppers, pressing forward.
20. Seated hammy stretch.
21. Elbow to instep stretch, both sides.

Now it it’s time to do dynamic stretching. Make sure these movements are slow and controlled going through 8-12 reps of each dynamic stretch.

1. 3 phase eagle wing stretches. Go through 12 reps overall, 4 reps per phase.
2. Arm circles, clockwise and counter clockwise.
3. Torso swings with arms loosely extended to the sides.
4. Standing alternating high knees.
5. Ballet style side leg swings.

It’s time to do sport specific movements at a level 2-3 intensity for about 3-5 minutes.
1. Punches moving 120o from the sky to the floor.
2. Body shot kicks.
3. Animal like crawling.
4. Ninja rolls.
5. Bob and weave.

Your main workout should consist of no more than 6 different exercises, completing no more than 6 reps for each separate exercise. your main workout should last no longer than 40 minutes.

Repeat slow sport specific movements after workout at level 5 intensity for about 3-5 minutes. Immediately follow this with a 3-5 minute period of maximal exertion.

Go through some dynamic stretches until your heart rate has normalized.

Finish with static stretches.

i don't always do the sport specific movements, like if i'm doing a 15-20 minute cardio session through the woods... it's best to just start slow for five minutes, gradually increase speed until i get to the uphill part when i go for maximal exertion and then gradually decrease speed and finish slow.

Post by **Oscar** » Sun 05 Jul 2009 11:08

Wow, what a routine

Okay so basically what I've been doing. Good to know.

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Sun 05 Jul 2009 15:39

yea, it seems sort of ridiculous at first, but you can really tell the difference, especially during the cool down. i feel so relaxed after i workout now.

and yes... i suppose when it comes to hamstrings, you really do just have to reach for your toes haha.

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Mon 06 Jul 2009 00:46

There is some research that seems to indicate static stetches done bfore your work out can make you weaker and less stable. These researches recommend static stretches after only as part of the cool down.

Check out:
https://mtinet.mortgagetrustinc.com:8443/thread/1511
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _n7581400/

I read this guys stuff over 25 year ago and it is still popular.

http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch09.html

also, have your tried or do you do PNF stretching? I have measured the most gains with this type of work. Plus it works on making sure you can still apply strength at your full range of motion.

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Mon 06 Jul 2009 15:52

studies have been increasingly clear that static stretching alone before exercise does little or nothing to help.

if you look at my routine, you'll see there's much more to the warm up and cool down than just static stretches and i don't hold them that long either. i count 9 breaths, which is usually about 10-15 seconds. the stretches are never strenuous.

A major study published earlier this year by the Centers for Disease Control, on the other hand, found that knee injuries were cut nearly in half among female collegiate soccer players who followed a warm-up program that included both dynamic warm-up exercises and static stretching.

this is what i do. i also incorporate 5 minutes of jumping rope after the joint rotations, which are important too, right before the static stretching which is followed by the dynamic.

did you read anything from the e-book link i provided? it's a pretty extensive work... unfortunately, i am not armed with a scientific mind and i have short term memory problems so i can't really explain how this method works. when i read through it though, it all made a lot of sense and cleared up some things i was confused about.

from reading the other articles, they don't really help much. i'm reading a lot of anti-static stretching and i didn't get much info in the other direction.

the last link you provided, the man who developed the method i follow used some of his books... stretching scientifically was one of them.

what does PNF stand for btw? it sounds familiar... i think i remember that being mentioned in the e-book where i got my info from.

what kind of stretching do you do?

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Mon 06 Jul 2009 18:11

I see that you do more than static stretches in your warm up, but you do them. Most of the latest research I have seen says not to do them at all until your cool down. They have measured muscles strength to be temporarily weaker after doing them.

I have read the article many times over the last several years. It is does a great job of explaining what happens when stretching and how muscles work.

you can read about PNF stretching here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNF_stretching

I do a little of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_stretching

and kind of the opposite where I use my opposing muscles to stretch the muscle being stretched, like I will lay on my back and try to bring my toes to the floor near my head without using my hands to pull it

I also use many stretches that come from yoga

martianwarrior · Post by **martianwarrior** » Mon 06 Jul 2009 20:58

tell you what... since you're probably older than i am and thus, more experienced, i'll try cutting out the static stretches in the beginning of my routine and see if i can notice a difference. what you say does make sense.

in fact, there was a video series online that i used to check out on you tube by a guy who called himself the 'stretch expert'. he says that if you stretch for longer than 3 seconds at a time you're really just hurting yourself. i thought that was a little far out, but he had some good tips for increasing your vertical jump. check him out and let me know what you think.

thanks for trying to help

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Mon 06 Jul 2009 21:49

martianwarrior wrote:, i'll try cutting out the static stretches in the beginning of my routine and see if i can notice a difference. what you say does make sense.

I suggest coming up with a way to measure it your results. Many times it is impossible to notice things because they are very subtle. To be somewhat scientific about it, one should have a way of measuring results. It is very difficult to know for sure because there are so many things that can change (time of day, temperature, etc)

martianwarrior wrote:
in fact, there was a video series online that i used to check out on you tube by a guy who called himself the 'stretch expert'. he says that if you stretch for longer than 3 seconds at a time you're really just hurting yourself. i thought that was a little far out, but he had some good tips for increasing your vertical jump. check him out and let me know what you think.

thanks for trying to help

He may be on to something. What he says makes sense, but when someone is trying to convince you of something they usually make sense... I'm not saying he is wrong or right. I just don't have enough info on his results to know. I have injured myself in the past by holding long static stretches that where too much for me.

My only advise it to learn more about if static stretches before activity can hinder you. There is a lot of research out there.

joint health and flexibility

joint health and flexibility

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