There seems to be a general aversion towards modern medicine among people who follow alternative lifestyles, such as the Wai diet; I bet most Wai followers do not take painkillers, supplements, anti depressants and so on. The drugs we have today are often dismissed because we do not know how they function specifically, they are often aimed at eliminating symptoms instead of causes, they often have side effects and so on.
However, a lot of people seem to think that a new era of medicine is to arrive, what with the fast progress made in understanding the human genome, how the cell works, how the neural networks that build up our brains work and so on. A relatively new scientifical field - Biological engineering - ultimately aims at not only understanding Biology and Chemistry, but to enhance organisms such as humans by technological means.
My question is this - when do you think that science will win over the traditional way of doing things? For instance, when will a vitamin pill actually be a better alternative than an egg yolk? When will someone who aims at living as long as possible acutally benefit from buying those products pushed by medicine companies (something along the lines of "Life Enhancer Plus - Live to be a 1000 years old!"), instead of staying true to the orginial way of doing things?
Obviously this is a hypothetical question, which requires quite a good understanding of modern science... But it's still interesting to ponder the qustion.
Modern medicine vs tradition
-
andyville
- Posts: 142
- https://cutt.ly/meble-kuchenne-wroclaw
- Joined: Fri 19 May 2006 14:06
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I think it's still far away. Understanding the human genome is a totally different story than just mapping it. Most of the time the results of experiments aren't clear cut, a bit like this: 90% of the subjects with disease X have gene Y, whereas in the subjects without disease X only 13% have gene Y. We have found a positive correlation between disease X and gene Y. Title of article (and picked up by the media): "Disease X caused by gene Y".
There is no taking into account other factors in the equation, like nutrition. 90% means that 10% has the disease, but does not have the gene; 13% means that people without gene Y can still get the disease.
A first step in getting closer to understanding disease might be realizing that disease is abnormal and unnecessary in a healthy body. Since we're brought up with the idea that diseases are part of life, and that we have to cure them by whatever means (traditional, modern, alternative medicin alike), this view is unacceptable by most people.
Enhancing the human body might be a nice idea, but how can you enhance something if you don't know how it works?
There is no taking into account other factors in the equation, like nutrition. 90% means that 10% has the disease, but does not have the gene; 13% means that people without gene Y can still get the disease.
A first step in getting closer to understanding disease might be realizing that disease is abnormal and unnecessary in a healthy body. Since we're brought up with the idea that diseases are part of life, and that we have to cure them by whatever means (traditional, modern, alternative medicin alike), this view is unacceptable by most people.
Enhancing the human body might be a nice idea, but how can you enhance something if you don't know how it works?
Mmmm,
Waiting for the day when biotechnology is so advanced that there is no more use leaving imperfect people like you and me. Might just as well clone archtypes like Einstein, Superman, Marilyn Monroe...
We are no longer talking about the human species, but the evolution of post-human. It's like the saying of Nietzsche in Zarathustra: man is a rope, tied between the beast and the overman. Except today, the pull is more between the organic and the artificial. We are ALREADY living in the Cyborg era, thriving in heart transplants and plastic surgeries.
The only thing that we have not been able to temper with any degree of success is the brain. I wonder for how much longer...
Waiting for the day when biotechnology is so advanced that there is no more use leaving imperfect people like you and me. Might just as well clone archtypes like Einstein, Superman, Marilyn Monroe...
We are no longer talking about the human species, but the evolution of post-human. It's like the saying of Nietzsche in Zarathustra: man is a rope, tied between the beast and the overman. Except today, the pull is more between the organic and the artificial. We are ALREADY living in the Cyborg era, thriving in heart transplants and plastic surgeries.
The only thing that we have not been able to temper with any degree of success is the brain. I wonder for how much longer...
Well, Ray Kurzweil says that considering the rate of development we see in computer software and hardware today, we should be able to build a computational model of the brain within 17 years. Around that time, artificial intelligence will also reach the level of humans'... And then, dear friends, we're toast! 
We're going to end up with four distinct tribes all at war with one another.
1. The Vegans. They'll lose because they won't have the killer insticnt needed to fight everyone else- mostly because they'll empathize with the enemy.
2. The Meat eaters. They'll lose because they won't understand the technology needed to compensate for the nano probes abilities to adapt to their weapons, such as clubs and sticks.
3. The IBs (In betweens) Lacto-ovo-fruit-veg-meat eaters- the likes of Wai will lose put put up the best fight of all because of the mix of animal instinct and fruit/plant sensibilities. But...
4. The Machine-Cyborg. Man will tinker enough to create a machine that replicates itself without our help and 'Singularity' will come to pass. We'll either be used or destroyed, or sent to a condo resort in Florida because some human at some point befriended a machine in Mexico.
Now is the time to say, no metal parts in our bodys! No metal hips, chips etc.! No electronic eyes to see. No artificial heart! We must create a Human only colony now to preserve our linage as fully biological beings...before it's too late!
Follow the white rabit
1. The Vegans. They'll lose because they won't have the killer insticnt needed to fight everyone else- mostly because they'll empathize with the enemy.
2. The Meat eaters. They'll lose because they won't understand the technology needed to compensate for the nano probes abilities to adapt to their weapons, such as clubs and sticks.
3. The IBs (In betweens) Lacto-ovo-fruit-veg-meat eaters- the likes of Wai will lose put put up the best fight of all because of the mix of animal instinct and fruit/plant sensibilities. But...
4. The Machine-Cyborg. Man will tinker enough to create a machine that replicates itself without our help and 'Singularity' will come to pass. We'll either be used or destroyed, or sent to a condo resort in Florida because some human at some point befriended a machine in Mexico.
Now is the time to say, no metal parts in our bodys! No metal hips, chips etc.! No electronic eyes to see. No artificial heart! We must create a Human only colony now to preserve our linage as fully biological beings...before it's too late!
Follow the white rabit
avalon:
I love the fact that you used the term "singularity" - have you read Kurzweil as well?
I guess the only thing we can be sure of is that the technology that is to come will change the world as we know it quite dramatically. I for one can't wait... I'm looking forward to being a cyborg with immense memory, everlasting life, incredible IQ and so on... Wow...
I come to think of the cynic/ironic Donald Fagen song IGY (any fellow Steely Dan fans around?)
"A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
We'll be clean when their work is done
We'll be eternally free yes and eternally young
What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free"
I love the fact that you used the term "singularity" - have you read Kurzweil as well?
I guess the only thing we can be sure of is that the technology that is to come will change the world as we know it quite dramatically. I for one can't wait... I'm looking forward to being a cyborg with immense memory, everlasting life, incredible IQ and so on... Wow...
I come to think of the cynic/ironic Donald Fagen song IGY (any fellow Steely Dan fans around?)
"A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
We'll be clean when their work is done
We'll be eternally free yes and eternally young
What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free"
oscar:
I totally agree with your thoughts on the problems of focusing on disease instead of health. I'm one of those persons who would never dream of taking so much as a painkiller, if I was feeling ill. I always try to think "hmmm, my body is trying to tell me something - might there be something wrong in my life that I have to look into?"
In my opinion most drugs are tragically focused on fighting symptoms instead of eliminating the root of the evil. To give an example - a person who is fat might get a prescription for weight loss pills from his doctor, when what the person really needs is therapy for his eating disorder.
I totally agree with your thoughts on the problems of focusing on disease instead of health. I'm one of those persons who would never dream of taking so much as a painkiller, if I was feeling ill. I always try to think "hmmm, my body is trying to tell me something - might there be something wrong in my life that I have to look into?"
In my opinion most drugs are tragically focused on fighting symptoms instead of eliminating the root of the evil. To give an example - a person who is fat might get a prescription for weight loss pills from his doctor, when what the person really needs is therapy for his eating disorder.
Who says it isn't possible with our bodies as they are now? I'm convinced we are capable of so much more than we presently think. Optimal nutrition (over generations?) is the key element to create the optimal circumstances to start experimenting with developing "extraordinary" capabilities. "Mens sana in corpore sano" (a healthy mind in a healthy body), so first let's get that "corpus" in the "sanus" state...andyville wrote:I'm looking forward to being a cyborg with immense memory, everlasting life, incredible IQ and so on... Wow...
Optimal nutrition (over generations?) is the key element to create the optimal circumstances to start experimenting with developing "extraordinary" capabilities.
Unfortunately the majority of peoples are on some version of the S.A.D. diet and reproducing faster than the Raw fooders, most likely
lord knows we're growing meat in a petri dish nowsoon enough, if not already, we'll be able to create a human without a human host...then what does nutrition matter...
So in the future we won't have to kill the cow etc. OY!http://www.britishmeat.com/meatnomurder.html
I think that even with a heart implant, we can still get in touch with our body and start eating better.
By the way, a heart implant is not in metal, it's usually from some other human donor. And I don't see any problem with a metal appendice (or silicon which is surely more attractive) if a limb was missing.
I don't have any aversion to modern technology, it's the paradigm shift from body as identity to the haunting question "do we have an identity and does it have a physical lodge?" that distabilizes me.
Then again, the whole human existence is one big irresolvable paradox.
By the way, a heart implant is not in metal, it's usually from some other human donor. And I don't see any problem with a metal appendice (or silicon which is surely more attractive) if a limb was missing.
I don't have any aversion to modern technology, it's the paradigm shift from body as identity to the haunting question "do we have an identity and does it have a physical lodge?" that distabilizes me.
Then again, the whole human existence is one big irresolvable paradox.
Are you set to be frozen when you die? If not, what if you die first? I used to think it was too costy to get frozen, but many people get a life insurance policy with the beneficieary being the cyrogenic company of choice. I used to work for a privately funded company where all the team members fully believed (I and still do believe) that they will have AI with the inteligence of a 10 year old in the next three years. These guys are working almost 24 hous a day 7 days a week. That is one of the reasons I quit, the workaholic culture was something I didn't like. I wasn't a true believer. I had some really intersting conversations though. The main guy thought it would be actual murder to pull the plug on a computer that was running a AI system if it was truely AI.andyville wrote:avalon:
for one can't wait... I'm looking forward to being a cyborg with immense memory, everlasting life, incredible IQ and so on... Wow...
by the way the owner followed the CRON program for his approach to diet. He was really into it. He was friends with Dr. Walford and had CRON meeting at his house with DR. Walfords daughter and a bunch of other CRON people.
The owner of the company's main motive for AI is so he can have a super researcher to help him figure out how to live forever. He is also one of the main guys in a body recovery unit for one of the firms that freezes people. When someone who wants to be frozen dies, he is one of the group that goes to retrieve and prepare the body. he also is signed up to be froozen.
I think it would be cool if we had suppliments that where equal or better to the best possible nutrition. At least as an option. I mean, we could still enjoy food but wouldn't have to depend on it. it would be cool to have the option of just mix a few shakes a day and not have to worry about anything (parasites, pesticides, is this diet optimal, etc)