Fasting for Acne / blood protein / kwashiorkor / edema

[Havas]

Also, Havas, remember to rest after eating proteins! If you have the eggs in the morning, you shoulkd not run of too work/school right afterwords. This can cause proteins to not get fully digested into single amino acids, causing water retention.

I'll try that, thanks

[Havas]

Not a disease. No skin problems. Pure malnutrition, which is effectively resolved

It's not more or less than a disease than scurvy. And they actually do have skin problems, but it's trivial (overly dry skin generally) in comparison to the fact they're starving to death.

[RRM]

Yes, Kwashiorkor is what it's called. Unless you can find me a link about "Hunger edema", I'm pretty sure we're talking of the same thing.

kwashiorkor symptoms: 'flaky paint' dermatosis and edema in the legs and/or arms (so-called peripheral edema).
This disease is very hard to treat; most children die, even when treated.

Hunger Edema symptoms: swollen bellies, whereas the rest of the body is a skeleton.
This condition is easy to treat (90%) with proper nutrition.

So, they are obviously not the same. Dont tell me you never saw starving children with swollen bellies on tv.
On this page they are therefore listed seperately. (see alimentary causes)

It's not more or less than a disease than scurvy. And they actually do have skin problems, but it's trivial (overly dry skin generally) in comparison to the fact they're starving to death.

You are right, hunger edema is not more or less a disease than scurvey, but the same is not true regarding kwashiorkor; scientists still struggle with finding the actual cause and proper treatment.

[Havas]

kwashiorkor symptoms: 'flaky paint' dermatosis and edema in the legs and/or arms (so-called peripheral edema).

This disease is very hard to treat; most children die, even when treated.

Where are you getting this from?
Wikipedia (and all other medical sources):
Symptoms of kwashiorkor include a swollen abdomen known as a pot belly...

Generally, the disease can be treated by adding food energy and protein to the diet; however, it can have a long-term impact on a child's physical and mental development, and in severe cases may lead to death.

Hunger Edema symptoms: swollen bellies, whereas the rest of the body is a skeleton.
This condition is easy to treat (90%) with proper nutrition.

Again, where are you getting this from?

So, they are obviously not the same. Dont tell me you never saw starving children with swollen bellies on tv.

You mean like this?:


Oops. Nevermind, that's kwashiorkor.

On this page they are therefore listed seperately. (see alimentary causes)

Link me to a page about "Hunger Edema" rather than a dictionary that mentions hunger can be a cause

You are right, hunger edema is not more or less a disease than scurvey, but the same is not true regarding kwashiorkor; scientists still struggle with finding the actual cause and proper treatment.

I'm pretty sure it's still considered a disease if mechanisms and treatment are unknown. Anyway, they do know it is malnutrition of sorts.

[RRM]

Let us not forget what started this discussion about hunger edema and kwashiokor:

I'm saying that not eating, cannot elevate blood protein level.

But it has been known for decades that
"Factors other than protein intake per se can bring about an increase in serum protein levels above normal averages even in the presence of mild to moderate protein deficiency as determined by diet interview or clinical examination"
Thats is why:
"Serum protein levels cannot be used for the detection of mild to moderate degrees of protein deficiency in humans", as one may be protein deficient with relative high blood / lymphe protein levels (relative to plasma protein levels), From Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease: "the increase in extracellular volume causes obvious fluid swelling within the skin, and other interstitual tissues, called hunger edema".
("increase in serum proteins appears to be an increase in both albumin and globulin fractions"... "phenomena of high serum protein values in the presence of mild to moderate protein deficiency")

Where are you getting this from?

Kwashiorkor is still not fully understood
"Among the symptoms mentioned by Williams, peripheral oedema and skin lesions predominate. The clinical appearance of hypopigmentation, hyperpigmentation and desquamation was her main focus for the differential diagnosis, and this view is maintained to the present day"
...
"when 'flaky paint' dermatosis is seen in (1)a malnourished child with oedema, it is pathognomonic of (2)kwashiorkor" (note: 1 can have 2, but 1 and 2 are not the same)
...
"is still true that most children die after initiation of treatment"

"Hunger edema would be considered as hypoproteinemic edema...
Kwashiokor is a particular form of undernourishment; after infants have been weaned, they receive cereals as their main source of nourishment. This ultimately leads to underdevelopment and the formation of edema"

Hunger edema is easy to treat because it has a clear cause.
Methionine was one of the 1st medicins for 'hunger edema', because its the rarest of all 20 amino acids; the body; by supplementing it the body can re-use the protein in the lymphe and blood (that causes the edema) for (re)construction purposes.

Link me to a page about "Hunger Edema" rather than a dictionary that mentions hunger can be a cause

Thats is a medical dictionary and this page is specifically about edema.
It lists hunger and kwashiorkor as separate causes.
Thats pretty clear cut, isnt it?
Wikipedia says kwashiokor is "a type of malnutrition with controversial causes".
Starvation is caused by a lack of food. No controversy there.
There are numerous accounts of hunger edema throughout history (WW1, 2nd world war camps, 1877 India, Irish Potato Famine).

From another list of medical terms:
"War-edema: Nutritional edema, a disorder of nutrition due to long-continued diet deficiency of protein and/or calories, and marked by anasarca and edema; called also alimentary edema, famine edema and hunger edema".

regarding kwashiorkor; scientists still struggle with finding the actual cause and proper treatment.

I'm pretty sure it's still considered a disease if mechanisms and treatment are unknown.

Thats what im saying.

Anyway, they do know it is malnutrition of sorts.

'of sorts', very adequately put.
"Kwashiorkor is a type of malnutrition with controversial causes"
"possible role of aflatoxins in the pathogenesis of the disease"
"inflammatory character of kwashiorkor"
"associated liver disease"
"role of reactive oxygen species"
"the condition (kwashiokor) cannot be represented as a "simple" protein-energy deficiency"

You mean like this?:
Oops. Nevermind, that's kwashiorkor.

Because wikipedia says its a kwashiohkor child?
We need a picture of a malnourished child with edema? Here you got one.
But has that child actually been diagnosed with having kwashiokor?
What makes you think that this child has the symptoms that are classical for kwashiokor?
It does not have peripheral edema, and i cannot see any skin lesions / 'flaky paint' dermatosis.
What you see is a malnourished child with edema, which may be simply hunger edema, or it may have kwashiokor if it is specifically diagnosed that way. (or other disease).
Of course its easy enough to interchange different malnutrition-related diseases if edema is involved, as they all look alike, right?