Wai Diet without OO

[ychiung]

Hi,

So far the wai diet addresses water retention in acne but not sebum production. So my question is what influences the production of sebum and what can be done to keep sebum production as low as is necessary to lubricate the skin, without clogging pores, other than following the wai diet?

[fictor]

Things that I know can influence sebum production:

Hormones!

How to keep hormone levels from going on a rollercoaster ride?

Do not take anabolic steroids.
Do not take other hormonal drugs, such as the pill.
Do not eat food with phyto hormones.
Do not work out (body builder style).
Do not stress (this is very hard, but the following things might help).
Get enough sleep
Do yoga, meditation or other relaxing tecniques.

And of course it helps to not be a guy
And remember to choose parents who does not have high sebum production!

[ychiung]

Damn, I flunked some of those. I am a gymmer but how can building muscles affect hormones? If I work out to increase muscle mass, would the Wai diet be enough to stop acne? What about sex and masturbation?

[fictor]

Doing body building exercises boosts testosterone levels, wich can lead to both water retention and increased sebum production. RRM reccomends doing isolating exercises, one muscle every day. This leads to muscle growth, but strains the body little and affect hormone levels less than hard strenght training.

Sex and masturbation affects hormone levels, but does not create a massive increase in testosterone and is not considered to cause or worsen acne by the moderators of this forum. My own experimentation confirms this.

[ychiung]

Does it mean the longer u work out the more hormones are released? What about how hard u train? If I'm working, say, two muscle groups per session, is it OK (eg chest and forearms one day, shoulders and back the other and so on)?

[ychiung]

Does it mean the longer u work out the more hormones are released? What about how hard u train? If I'm working, say, two muscle groups per session, is it OK (eg chest and forearms one day, shoulders and back the other and so on)?

[fictor]

As far as I know, both long and /or hard workout sessions create a raise in testosterone levels.

[RRM]

High protein intakes also stimulate sebum production.
High protein intakes may also increase water retention. (the combination likely causes acne)

Basically, your testosterone level may be higher if your muscle volume is elevated (bodybuilder), but that does not HAVE to be the case. Also, your testosterone level may be higher if you are working out to build big muscles fast. If muscle building activities and muscle break down are more or less balanced (you are not gaining or losing muscle weight), your hormones are most likely balanced as well.
Its all about finding your own tolerance level, as it is different per person.

[ychiung]

What about the differentiation between cooked and raw protein? I assume if my protein intake is sufficient or slightly more, then this does not cause acne as long as the protein quality is high, ie protein in raw salmon or egg yolk. The problems of acne occurs when the protein is denatured/destroyed by heat. I would think this causes more water retention and sebum production in certain individuals. Is my assumption correct?

As long as I eat raw salmon or egg yolk, then I do not have to worry about acne unless the intake is way too much. Also I should observe the inactive period of 3 hours after each proteinous meal. Whether I observe the rest period or not, to me it doesnt make much difference.

Also, I am at a stage where I can introduce some munch food into my diet. My question is whether the 15g/day of cooked protein is the only guideline? What about the salt content? Doesnt salt cause acne as well?

[RRM]

I assume if my protein intake is sufficient or slightly more, then this does not cause acne as long as the protein quality is high, ie protein in raw salmon or egg yolk.

Unfortunately that does not matter; whenever your blood protein level is elevated, this stimulates testosterone and sebum production. This causes a different kind of acne (no real inflammations; mainly stuck sebum resulting in painful whiteheads right under the surface of the skin), but nevertheless, its acne.
When it coincides with water retention (cooked protein, spices, salt or very high protein intakes), then you get bigger pimples caused by inflammations.

The problems of acne occurs when the protein is denatured/destroyed by heat. I would think this causes more water retention and sebum production in certain individuals. Is my assumption correct?

Yes, but many people that are susceptible to acne also get acne when they eat too much (cooked or raw) protein in general.

As long as I eat raw salmon or egg yolk, then I do not have to worry about acne unless the intake is way too much.

For me, even when its just a little too much, it still results in acne. No cysts, but acne nevertheless.

Also, I am at a stage where I can introduce some munch food into my diet. My question is whether the 15g/day of cooked protein is the only guideline? What about the salt content? Doesnt salt cause acne as well?

Absolutely.
With the first experiments you should not use any salt spices. You can carefully introduce these when things go smoothly.

[ychiung]

Well that's so unfortunate. In the original Wai book, she clearly mentions the distinction between raw and cooked protein. She specifically singles that it is cooked protein that should be avoided at all cost.

If u say that too much raw protein causes painful white heads and bad protein cause inflammations, I also found that applying some BP cream on the white heads gives great results. Not so for the large inflammations though. During the past few days, I discovered my results can be much enhanced by using weak BP cream (2.5% concentration every other day).

Also with the cream I can afford to be less strict...I am not sure what my tolerance is yet but I reckon I still need to watch my protein intake, especially cooked protein. So far, I'm on my way to clearer skin. I really wish I do not need to apply the BP but without it, I am getting the painful small cysts that RRM is talking about. The size of the inflammations are smaller though but still painful.

[RRM]

Well that's so unfortunate. In the original Wai book, she clearly mentions the distinction between raw and cooked protein. She specifically singles that it is cooked protein that should be avoided at all cost.

True.

Also with the cream I can afford to be less strict...
I really wish I do not need to apply the BP...

You dont have to, its a choice. You chose being less strict plus using the cream over being very strict. Thats a choice.

but without it, I am getting the painful small cysts that RRM is talking about. The size of the inflammations are smaller though but still painful.

Then limit your overall protein intake.
My overall protein tolerance (not taking in account all protein from fruits etc) is 133 gram of fish when taken once a day, and its 140 to 150 when spread over 2 meals.

[ychiung]

Approximately how much is 133 g of raw fish in terms of Salmon sashimi? In my place, the smallest portion of raw fish I can order is 6 medium sized but cut into 1-inch thick slices. I also consumed this in one meal normally after a gym session. How much is 133g in terms of medium sized egg yolks?

[fictor]

I suggest you buy a kitchen weight. It is cheap and a good way to know exactly what you eat.

Egg yolks differ in size and weight, but they are usually between 13 and 20 grams, containing a little less protein than say salmon, if I remember correctly.

At this point I eat 3 egg yolks and 50 grams of salmon sashimi every day.
My skin is not perfect, but it is as good as when on the 100% strict sample diet (3 egg yolks OR 50 grams of fish) and for now I am satisfied with that.

[sugarbarbie]

Doing body building exercises boosts testosterone levels, wich can lead to both water retention and increased sebum production. RRM reccomends doing isolating exercises, one muscle every day. This leads to muscle growth, but strains the body little and affect hormone levels less than hard strenght training.

Sex and masturbation affects hormone levels, but does not create a massive increase in testosterone and is not considered to cause or worsen acne by the moderators of this forum. My own experimentation confirms this.

You are so funny.