Cholesterol in human mother's milk

[jfk]

Does human mother's milk contain cholesterol?

[Oscar]

Yes, 14mg per 100gr.

[jfk]

Thanks One more thing, do you know how egg yolk compares with this?

On Wiki it said one large yolk contains more than two-thirds of the recommended daily limit of 300mg of cholesterol. Not sure how much an egg yolk weighs though.

[Oscar]

1 large egg yolk weighs about 17gr.
That means 1 large yolk contains 210mg, or 1234mg per 100gr.

The recommended 300mg per day only applies to cooked cholesterol.
Look also here: http://www.waidiet.com/nutrients/cholesterol.html

[jfk]

1 large egg yolk weighs about 17gr.
That means 1 large yolk contains 210mg, or 1234mg per 100gr.

Thanks.

The recommended 300mg per day only applies to cooked cholesterol.
Look also here: http://www.waidiet.com/nutrients/cholesterol.html

I'm not worried about the amount of cholesterol in eggs the way we eat them in the same way as 'normal' cooked food eaters worry about cholesterol. I was just interested in how the foods we eat compare with breast milk. One of the most interesting points brought up by the wai book is the low levels of protein in breast milk being similar/same to that of fruit. Obviously breast milk is no longer our ideal food beyond a certain age. However the rate of growth of babies and their seemingly low protein intake still stands as a good justification for an equally low protein intake later in life. I was wondering though, cholesterol is a key component in cell membranes and wai book says it is especially significant in brain tissue and that a lack of it causes sleeplessness, but we don't need more than the amount a growing baby would get from being breast fed, do we? Of course I have no idea how much breast milk a baby consumes per day or their energy requirements for that matter. This makes me further wonder, the rate of growth of a baby is high compared to adult 'growth' which is really just minimal growth and then repair, but we are much bigger and so have many more cells to maintain. Is that why the wai diet recommends fish, nuts, egg yolks in the amounts that they do? Because wouldn't that be proportionally too much concentrated protein compared with breast milk.

I suppose I was just wondering what the minimum daily requirements for cholesterol are from a comparison with breast milk, baring in mind our adult bodies. As you say RDAs aren't helpful since they are considering cooked cholesterol. Plus they don't use the breast milk composition as a guide, if they did I suppose protein RDA would be much lower.

[RRM]

we don't need more than the amount a growing baby would get from being breast fed, do we?

the issue about the cholesterol required is a little more complicated than that of protein because there is a great deal of interference of hormones.
The metabolism of the sex hormones is interwined with that of cholesterol, and also with that of neurotransmitters (particularly serotonin), so that as adults our 'cholesterol requirements' very much differ; especially women tend to thrive on extra cholesterol.
Cholesterol is needed for making estrogen and progesterone (triggering progesterone production Arikan S et al; key event in luteolysis of the corpus luteum),
and to replenish lost cholesterol due to menstruation.
There are significant differences in cholesterol (free and esterified) levels during the menstrual phase.
Total cholesterol (free and esterified) is significantly lower in the menstrual phase, rises on average 9.2% in follicular phase, and declines slightly in luteal phase. Lussier-Cacan S et al
Cholesterol levels are highest around ovulation. Mumford SL

the rate of growth of a baby is high compared to adult 'growth' which is really just minimal growth and then repair, but we are much bigger and so have many more cells to maintain. Is that why the wai diet recommends fish, nuts, egg yolks in the amounts that they do? Because wouldn't that be proportionally too much concentrated protein compared with breast milk.

Its not too much protein because the amount of fish / yolks / nuts we eat is really very small when compared to fruits etc. In general this diet still is a low protein diet, unless you eat more fish / yolks / nuts, of course.

I suppose I was just wondering what the minimum daily requirements for cholesterol are from a comparison with breast milk

We dont have to think in absolute numbers; relative numbers are very helpful (as they apply to all weights); comparing the percentage of cholesterol in human breast milk to the percentage of cholesterol in natural foods.

In souci SW et al it says that up to 10 days post partum, human breast milk contains more cholesterol, but after about 10 days, it contains about 19 to 35 mg / 100 g (on average 25 mg).
This diet (lots of fruit and a little animal food) on the average usually contains something between 1 and 20 mg / 100 gram food. (but if you take a lot of egg yolks it can be over 50 mg / 100 g.)

So, yes, our diet usually contain less cholesterol than mother's milk (as our brains dont need to develop anymore), but if you need more (for feeling happy, or to sleep well), you can take more.

PS; once you have replied, i will move this thread to 'specific nutrients'

[chris m failla]

Hey gang. My wife and I would love to know your knowlege for a homeade baby milk. My wife still breastfeeds our 17 month old child and makes about 4 bottes a day while at her dest at work. Pretty amazing and dedicated wife thank you very much. Anyways its getting to be almost impossible to keep up the production, especially when we have occasions where just me and wifey go out on a date, she needs to make sure she makes milk for the babysitters and sleep overs at my moms. So what would be the best "filler" or alternative to add to the milk to make it stretch and make more bottles ? We already add organic raw yolk since he was an infant. He's really smart by the way. What can we safely give him as a homeade baby "formula"? Raw Cow milk, goat, cream, ect. ?

[Oscar]

Very nice

I don't know anything about baby food, but can't you introduce something like mashed bananas yet?

[jfk]

OK, thank you very much for detailed reply.

I guess I am very interested in cholesterol specifically since this is the only thing, in my opinion, that we need from animals (I personally feel comfortable with the fact that B12 is produced sufficiently by bacteria lining intestinal tract).

My superficial experience with cholesterol consumption is linked to some of the other older and more recent posts about the menstrual cycle and associated pain etc - though I wasn't experimenting with that in mind. Having said this, I had in part been very intrigued by a raw vegan who found that after years on the diet that she stopped "bleeding" but claims to have a sound menstrual cycle since she still ovulates. I'm not certain of how substantial the evidence for this is, a noticeable monthly spike in body temperature was mentioned. This was experienced by her sometime after initially having very painful periods. She has concluded through her own experiences, debatably, but none the less interestingly, that women nearing optimal health should not bleed at all.

When I first started the diet I immediately went from having crippling pain to none. Then I found when I cut out animal products for a while (2 months plus) - I became irregular (missed one) and again experienced pain for that time and sometime after re-introducing animal products. I find stress does play some factor but seems secondary to diet. From this I should assume that I need it cholesterol, to prevent pain and irregularity anyway.

But how do we know the metabolism of sex hormones is not being interfered with through the consumption of cholesterol in a negative way. Could the transitional changes experienced be a result of dependency on ingesting cholesterol. Then after some time without it how do we know the body wouldn't successfully adapt since we do produce cholesterol. Could we liken it to experiencing withdrawal symptoms in the same way as is associated with say drug dependency?

I don't want to experience the transitional pain again - and I have no idea if I would consequently have no pain after some time because my body had healthily adjusted or because I just stopped menstruating, which can't be good. It's kind of a mystery.

[jfk]

The metabolism of the sex hormones is interwined with that of cholesterol, and also with that of neurotransmitters (particularly serotonin), so that as adults our 'cholesterol requirements' very much differ; especially women tend to thrive on extra cholesterol.

Just to expand slightly, this is why I mentioned possible dependency symptoms, since this is how some amphetamines operate, certainly ecstasy blocks removal of serotonin from synapses. I don't know as much as you about the metabolism of cholesterol but if it did the same thing that would explain the feel good factor. I'm not saying that therefore if they do the same thing and because one is known to be dangerous that they both are, not at all. I just thought it might explain why negative (possibly temporary) changes were experienced when it was removed from the diet.

Also it has been mentioned several times in the forum that cholesterol is a major component of the brain and it is further implied from this that this is why we need a lot of it. However some will agree that protein is required in quite small amounts compared to what the masses generally believe, yet it is a huge component of our bodies. So surely one doesn't equal the other with cholesterol consumption and brain composition.

[jfk]

This is my last point!

Also it has been mentioned several times in the forum that cholesterol is a major component of the brain and it is further implied from this that this is why we need a lot of it. However some will agree that protein is required in quite small amounts compared to what the masses generally believe, yet it is a huge component of our bodies. So surely one doesn't equal the other with cholesterol consumption and brain composition.

I know you answered this already, but I didn't ask a very specific question so I was just expanding it for clarity.

[RRM]

Also it has been mentioned several times in the forum that cholesterol is a major component of the brain and it is further implied from this that this is why we need a lot of it. However some will agree that protein is required in quite small amounts compared to what the masses generally believe, yet it is a huge component of our bodies. So surely one doesn't equal the other with cholesterol consumption and brain composition.

Well, actually, thats a nice comparison.
Total daily protein consumption may be something like 60 gram and cholesterol consumption may be something between 0.1 and 1 gram cholesterol.
So, yes, the comparison is actually quite fair, as our muscle volume is also far larger than our brain volume.
In both cases you need a steady flow of building blocks, contributing to the cycle of blocks decomposed and composed by the body.

this is why I mentioned possible dependency symptoms, since this is how some amphetamines operate, certainly ecstasy blocks removal of serotonin from synapses. I don't know as much as you about the metabolism of cholesterol but if it did the same thing that would explain the feel good factor. I'm not saying that therefore if they do the same thing and because one is known to be dangerous that they both are, not at all. I just thought it might explain why negative (possibly temporary) changes were experienced when it was removed from the diet.

Ha ha.
Dont you think its the other way around originally?
Why do you think we are susceptible to certain drugs?
Because those 'symptoms' are in use as warning signals, 'rewards' etc. Not so that we can enjoy drugs, but to regulate our behaviour, in line with what we thrive on.
Because we need cholesterol, glucose etc, there are systems that stimulate us to take in enough of those essentials.
The negative changes are warning signals.
The drug responses dont explain the cholesterol withdrawal symptoms. The cholesterol withdrawal symptoms explain our susceptibility to drugs.

I personally feel comfortable with the fact that B12 is produced sufficiently by bacteria lining intestinal tract

Thats is not a fact, but an opinion.
If it was a fact, B12 would no longer be in the rank of vitamins.
Yes, it is produced in the body, like many vitamins, but if you say "sufficiently", it implies that we dont need it from our food, at all, ever.

[Oscar]

B12 can be produced by micro-organisms in out intestines, but it'll be produced in the large intestine. This means it cannot be absorbed anymore, because that happens in the last section of the small intestine. Would you want to get that B12 then you'd have to eat your own feces.

[jfk]

OK!! So all things considered, personal experiences too, I definitely will not stop ingesting cholesterol again.