sulforaphanes and chlorophyl

[johndela1]

I am debating some people on a raw food forum about greens. They are telling me greens give us sulforaphanes and chlorophyl.

Do we need chlorophyl?

and arn't sulforaphanes something we avoid? (toxins)

[RRM]

Do we need chlorophyl?

Chlorophyl is the green pigment in plants, containing magnesium and nitrogen (no chloride). It channels the energy of sunlight into chemical energy by photosynthesis.
Chlorophyl is related to vitamin B12, but unlike B12, NOT essential for us. (and thus not a vitamin) It is essential for plants though.
You don't need it.

arn't sulforaphanes something we avoid? (toxins)

These are compounds that evoke a protective response from our body.
The original purpose of those chemicals is to deter the animal that wants to eat the plant.
Such plant chemicals may have mutagenic properties and are sometimes mildly to severly toxic.
Do you need them?
No, but they may be beneficial, or not.
At least they are not 'guided missiles' targeting 'bad' molecules; they may also target 'good' molecules.

Here is a nice abstract.

[johndela1]

I hope someone in my raw food group sees this as good. I am dealing with people who say to eat greens because it is the center of the rainbow and they center us, too. So it is sometimes frustrating. These people seem to take it as a personal attack when I simply question there beliefs. I always prefix my posts with stuff like, Please don't take this as a personal attack, I just want to discuess this. I always let them know I am not tryingn to prove anything and am open to change, but it doesn't seem to register and they typically get defensive.

[Novidez]

When I am thinking about opening a new threat about a subject, someone already did it first . This forum is incredible, seriously. I would spent my entire day just reading what was already been said here

Today I was confronted with these "sulforaphanes" question. Well, I am still a noob regarding serious nomenclatures... "You don't know if you already have cancer cells inside you or not.", I had no argue...
So do you think this is not necessary at all, RRM? I know it is asking too much, but in this abstract that you put, what is the real meaning when it says "In these ways, neurohormetic phytochemicals such as resveratrol, sulforaphanes and curcumin might protect neurons against injury and disease by stimulating the production of antioxidant enzymes, neurotrophic factors, protein chaperones and other proteins that help cells to withstand stress. Thus, as we discuss in this review, highly conserved longevity and survival pathways in neurons are the targets of many phytochemicals."... Is it saying that those chemicals basically make our neurons to age faster? I'm sorry, I wish I could understand this without bothering you.

[RRM]

Fasting is healthy because it slows down ageing.
The basic process that makes fasting healthy, is autophagy.
Autophagy is what cleans up cells, which postpones their destruction and replacement.
Autophagy can also be stimulated biochemically, including by curcumin, resveratrol and sulpharophanes.

Two differences between fasting and biochemical stimulation is that
1) the former acts on all cells, whereas the latter only acts on those cells that get chemically stimulated by agents reaching those cells
2) these chemical agents do not just stimulate stimulate autophagy, but have a wide range of medicinal properties, which are not beneficial if you are not sick, properly diagnosed and treated accordingly

You do not need sulpharophanes.
They may be harmful and they may be beneficial.
The beneficial effects can more safely and effectively come from fasting as well.

[Novidez]

(Copy - Paste - Print)
Jk
It makes sense. The way that person approached me was on the perspective to prevent the disease, because, again, we can already have a cancer and still don't know. But I can see that in order to achieve this purpose, it's better to simply fast and promote autophagy.

but have a wide range of medicinal properties, which are not beneficial if you are not sick, properly diagnosed and treated accordingly

What those medicinal properties do to our body if we aren't sick? Do you know? Do they remain in our body and maybe become dependent from them or we just expel them?

[RRM]

What those medicinal properties do to our body if we aren't sick? Do you know? Do they remain in our body and maybe become dependent from them or we just expel them?

Just think about taking medication. (whether sick, or not).
If you take medication, you will eventually (if taking them long enough) need additional medication to counteract the ("side-") effects of the initial medication.
That is why people who are on medication usually end up taking multiple drugs.
Drugs (with their medicinal proporties) eliminate / fight certain symptoms, causing other symptoms.
That is what molecules with medicinal properties do; they change things.

[Novidez]

Just think about taking medication. (whether sick, or not).
If you take medication, you will eventually (if taking them long enough) need additional medication to counteract the ("side-") effects of the initial medication.
That is why people who are on medication usually end up taking multiple drugs.
Drugs (with their medicinal proporties) eliminate / fight certain symptoms, causing other symptoms.
That is what molecules with medicinal properties do; they change things.

Yeah, that's why, in the past, I was taking not only 1, not only 2, but 3 different medications at the same time.

Hmm, but some fruits also those medicinal properties... However, this is why you always say to eat really ripe fruit, because I guess the riper the less or none medicinal properties (the taste tells everthing actually). So we basically aim to have no medicinal properties inside our bodies, interesting. Btw, an amateur question, do raw meat/fish have medicinal properties too? (xD)

[RRM]

You are right about fruits; Compounds with medicinal properties generally taste bitter and/or acidic, and are eliminated as fruits ripen (properly).
All foods to some extend contain ingredients with medicinal properties.
Our body can detoxify them efficiently, up to a certain point, of course.
The idea is that our body has various self-defense mechanisms at its disposal to counteract most diseases and afflictions.
So that your best shot at optimal health is by letting your body do its job mostly undisturbed.