Cancer and vitamine B17, a simple and effective cure

[halfgaar]

The B17-deficiency theory doesnt make any sense to me, as we naturally hardly ever (or never) ate apricot/peach kernels or bitter almonds.
If your theory was correct, our early ancestors, eating natural foods only, all had cancer.
Does that make any sense to you?

As I said, there are 1200 edible plants which contain it, not just those apricot seeds and bitter almonds. And, apple seeds also contains it, and our ancestors wouldn't have thrown the apple core away.

Why is that people always tend to think that we lack something when sick?
Maybe because it makes it so much easier to be healthy; just buy a supplement of that what is lacking. Health can be bought for a few $
Wishfull thinking, in my opinion.

Actually, the deficiency theory of a lot of diseases is quite heretic to the medical industry. You say that people always tend to think that we lack something when sick, but it's usually first blamed on something external, only to find out it's a deficiency of something. The medical establishment is quite obverse to the idea of diseases being deficiencies of something.

Scurvy and Pellagra (among others) are good examples of deficiency diseases. The past is filled with diseases which turned out to be such diseases, why would that suddenly stop happening in the 21st century? I don't find it all that strange that our modern diseases are also deficiency diseases, because we get less and less good nutrients.

[Oscar]

Then you are in agreement with the vitamin B17 hypotheses. The idea is, that any substance which does much cellular damage triggers repair using trophoblast cells. The point with cancer is, that this repair can grow out of control, resulting in rapid cell devision, and the vitamin B17 is what your body using to stop it again. (Well, among other things, but this is one of the primary methods.)

This puts the label "carcinogenic" is a different perspective. Any harmful substance is a carcinogenic, but not in that it causes cancer, but that it triggers a process that can result in cancer, but that is not through any specific attribute of the substance.

I'm not necessarily in agreement with the hypothesis. The idea that cancer is caused by harmful substances is clear. Yet what process causes the cancer is unclear. It could very well be the mutagenic properties which mutate the cell's DNA in such a way that cancer is the result.

But let's assume it is caused by the lack of B17. Another possibility than an absolute lack of B17 could be a relative lack. Like with diabetes II, it's not that we'd need more insulin per se, but that our body cannot cope with the insulin demands caused by our eating habits. So it could be that by limiting or eliminating the ingestion of harmful substances, we also limit or eliminate the need for extra B17.

[halfgaar]

But let's assume it is caused by the lack of B17. Another possibility than an absolute lack of B17 could be a relative lack. Like with diabetes II, it's not that we'd need more insulin per se, but that our body cannot cope with the insulin demands caused by our eating habits. So it could be that by limiting or eliminating the ingestion of harmful substances, we also limit or eliminate the need for extra B17.

That is a key word there: extra B17. A diabetes patient needs extra insulin, but the point is that most western citizens don't get any B17 at all.

Limiting or eliminating harmful substances could be compared to walking around without an armored vest: one bullet and you're dead. I'm not implying that I walk around with one, but you get the idea. I totally agree that harmful substances should be avoided at all time, but assuming the B17 hypotheses is true, you're walking a fine line if you're depending on avoiding those substances alone to avoid cancer, in my opinion. There is no harm in an extra line of defense. Especially when you get older, and things like proteolytic enzyme production and immune functions decrease.

BTW, just a random note I forgot to mention: you, or someone else, said that you think we have the ability to taste bitter to avoid harmful foods. If you give a monkey an apricot, it cracks the pit open and eats the kernel inside. It would appear the monkey knows it's good for him.

[Oscar]

If B17 isn't in our diet, then it can't be essential, otherwise we would all get cancer early in our lives. I think other (essential) vitamin deficiencies, like scurvy, become apparent quite soon, not after many years.
Actually you mentioned in your first post that it's more like a backup system, which means investigating/preventing 'normal' system failure would be far more important than strengthening the backup system. To use your analogy: making sure you don't have enemies that'll shoot you is easier to live with than walking around with an armored vest all the time.

[halfgaar]

Because how vitamin B17 is said to work, with the beta glucosidase enzyme only being present in cancer cells, etc, I cannot imagine that it's a "merely" a backup system for occasional use. The body obviously expects the 2-glucose-cyanide-benzeldahyde to be present in our bodies all the time, to immediately react to cancer cells. Cancer cells get formed in your body, no matter what you do. Leaving out one of the most powerful substances your body has available to fight it, seems strange.

And that it's the most powerful line of defense has been indicated by a lot of research. People have been cured from severe cancers by laetrile or apricot seeds. Additionally, the man who sold me those pits is 64 years old, and has a PSA (prostate specific antigen) value that is lower than that of most men in their 20s.

If I may ask, why the resistance? It costs nothing, it hurts nothing... Why not take it? The following question may seem somewhat arrogant, but I mean it respectfully: could it be that there is some pride involved, because the Wai diet doesn't include B17? I know you could ask me the same, that I don't want to acknowledge the fact that it might not do anything, but because the price for my argument (€ 20 per year) is much cheaper than yours (death, possibly), I think I can safely say that it's not pride I'm arguing.

[halfgaar]

BTW, I thought I'd mention this as well: I'm on the Wai diet for a little over a week now, and it seems to have positive effects on my health indeed. I'm the only one of three in this house who didn't get the flu, and my (mild) acne seems to be subsiding. I don't yet want to write a testimonial, but let me already express thanks to the people behind the Wai diet.

My point is, I'm on your side

[johndela1]

What do you think about b17 being bitter? If I didn't know I should eat it becaue I read it somewhere I would avoid it because it has a bitter taste. If we go back in time and see how where we came from I think you'd find that people ate what was available and what appealed to our tastes.

It seems to me that essential nutrients would be something we'd naturally eat.

[halfgaar]

That's something I agree with. However, for me at least, it doesn't apply to these seeds, because I like them. And as I said, so do our dogs. Whenever I touch the jar of pits, they come storming at me, falling all over themselves...

Also, there are a lot of foods that contains it that doesn't taste bitter. I recently read that it's also in cashew nuts and alfalfa seeds (but only when the seeds have started growing; don't know the english word...).

[Oscar]

If I may ask, why the resistance? It costs nothing, it hurts nothing... Why not take it?

It's not a matter of resistance, just a matter of being scientific. I don't want to start consuming something just because someone/a website/some scientists/etc says I should, without understanding and thoroughly scrutinizing it. In the media (internet included) many cases can be found promoting specific substances, backed up by (quasi-)scientific research.
So I'll have to look into it, when I have the time. Or maybe RRM wants to, although he's very busy usually.

Anyways, how come we don't all have cancer, without B17 in our normal diets?

[halfgaar]

Anyways, how come we don't all have cancer, without B17 in our normal diets?

That would be because it's not the only line of defense. But, I think 1 out of 4 people who get it in their lifetime (in the US) is close enough.

Anyway, I understand your reasoning, and I respect it. Should you find out anything worth mentioning, both in favor or against B17, I'd be very interested. As long as you don't come up with Big Pharma sponsored research, but I don't think I have to tell you that

[Oscar]

But, I think 1 out of 4 people who get it in their lifetime (in the US) is close enough.

But that figure would apply to people eating common diets, with loads of toxins, so for us that might not be relevant.

Anyway, I understand your reasoning, and I respect it. Should you find out anything worth mentioning, both in favor or against B17, I'd be very interested. As long as you don't come up with Big Pharma sponsored research, but I don't think I have to tell you that

I'll make sure to post it here.

[halfgaar]

The original video I linked to disappeared. For those interested, here is another version of "The Science and Politics of Cancer".

[vini00720]

That's really interesting. My mom said that they used to eat the almond inside the apricot pit when she was growing up in India. I like them, but I only eat a couple in a year. I never made it a point to eat them. She tells me that they taste better in India, and they are too dried out here (in the US).

[johndela1]

If they taste better they probably contain less of the stuff that is believed (by some) to fight cancer.

Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdalin#Laetrile

here is a quote from the link:

"Amygdalin is sometimes confounded with laevomandelonitrile, also called laetrile for short; however, amygdalin and laetrile are different chemical compounds.[8] Laetrile, which was patented in the United States, is a semi-synthetic molecule sharing part of the amygdalin structure, while the "laetrile" made in Mexico is usually amygdalin, the natural product obtained from crushed apricot pits, or neoamygdalin.[9]"