no animal food, just fruits & nuts?

[justin1]

hi,
i wonder if there is anyone here, who before wai-diet was vegan, and tried wai-diet with yolks/fish, but went back to vegan again...? - or just become a vegan fruitarian excluding all animal food...?

i have tried wai-diet for a few months now by eating yolks and raw salmon for a while.
Before, i was a raw-vegan for 8-years.

Now i feel very strongly in mind and body, that i must remove all animal based food from my diet.

Thanks to wai-diet, I have completely removed all plants/vegetables from my diet.

I have included some nuts - inshell Brazil nuts - which are really good.

Now, I want to go on with only fruits and some nuts diet.

Very interested to hear your experience on that.

[fictor]

Weston A Price, whose research I am reading a lot these days, due to teeth
issues, was very interested in vegetarian/vegan nutrition. In his research
though, he came to the conclusion, that all groups of people with
excellent health (with a special focus on teeth, as he was a dentist) used
animal foods liberally, especially sea food where and when ever available,
but also dairy, meat and especially organ meats.

All the groups of which used no animal products (mostly small religious
fragments, like monks), had tooth decay and other signs of degenerative
disease.

I am not trying to judge your way of looking at life, heath and the universe, but such research as Weston A Price did, strongly suggests that <animal
foods are very important to human health.

[Iris]

Before I found out about the Wai Diet, I did raw vegan for a while too (half a year or so), and I| thought I was doing just fine. Didn't crave nimal foods. But now I eat fish and yolks regularly I can clearly tell the difference (regarding concentration, mood and hunger). So for me there's no doubt I'm continueing Wai (so that is with animal foods)

To me it's pure logic that we need animal foods, simply because we can't produce vit. B12 ourselves. Where will you be getting that from?

But on the other hand, if your body is clearly telling you to stop eating animal foods, I believe you should listen to it. Maybe it's just a temperarily thing, and you'll crave them in a while. Or you should just reduce your intake of animal foods, because you're ingesting more than your body is able to cope with (to much bacteria maybe?)

Another possibility, is that your aversion to the animal foods is due to your bad experience a while ago with salmon. It' s not uncommon to develop an aversion towards a certain food when you have become sick once after you ate it. So then it's just a matter of finding some realy fresh and good salmon, so your body will learn to like it again.

[fictor]

To me it's pure logic that we need animal foods, simply because we can't produce vit. B12 ourselves. Where will you be getting that from?

If I remember correctly, bacteria in our intestines can form vitamin B12, but
it is debated whether or not this is sufficient amounts of vitamin D to cover
our need.

On the other hand, I agree with you that eating animal foods
seems logic. I have never heard one good argument not too,
that is scientifically based, that is. Ethically and spiritually
it will always be a dead end discussion.

[Iris]

To me it's pure logic that we need animal foods, simply because we can't produce vit. B12 ourselves. Where will you be getting that from?

If I remember correctly, bacteria in our intestines can form vitamin B12, but
it is debated whether or not this is sufficient amounts of vitamin D to cover
our need.

I have read that several times on the internet as well, but that was mostly on pro vegan sites I think. Also, I thought I had read here somewhere that this is not true. So I looked it up. It appears that we can do some time without, but after years of a vegan diet (without "cheating") we do lack it.

viewtopic.php?t=804&highlight=vit+b12

On the other hand, I agree with you that eating animal foods
seems logic. I have never heard one good argument not too,
that is scientifically based, that is. Ethically and spiritually
it will always be a dead end discussion.

Yes, indeed

[Iris]

I assumed you meant vit. B12 instead of vit D...? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[fictor]

I meant B12, my mistake!

[justin1]

...Both, raw egg yolk and raw fish, taste good while eating, but a few hrs later and the following day, these foods provoce a hell in me, my body, and then mind are at "war"... I tried all combinations, limited amounts, without mixing, etc... I have reached the point when even small dose triggers heavy adverse reactions in my body - rapid development and pressure of mucus, swollen and clogged nasal and lungs (breathing) pathways with asthmatic symptoms, runny/clogged nose, swollen face, diarrhea, prespiration, etc

I found the wai-diet while searching info on raw egg yolks, because I knew many vegans, being without animal foods for many years, start including yolks as a source for B12. My own B12 level, after being 8-years raw-vegan, according to medical "standard" was too low, so I was too afraid to risk any possible consequencies... And just 1-month later, after eating some yolks, my B12 level show "normal". I am not debating on B12 issue... However, I do not perceive any difference in how I feel in regards to my being at low B12 compared to now... Maybe, long-term..., who knows...

My vit.D level has been OK... I rely on sun, so I have never been afraid as I love the sun, and I practice sun-gazing...

Btw, I have no teeth problems, specially when a few months ago I stopped using the conventional tooth creams, including the "healthy" tooth soaps etc..., my teeth and gum are even more strong and healthy. I use now only a tooth-brush and water once a day, or when necessary to gently clean my teeth.

I have been drinking gently squeezed juice of raw fresh sun-ripe organic lemon and grapefruit every day for almost 10-years. I think fresh sun-ripe organic fruits are not the cause for bad teeth. Unbalance caused by unripe fruits or bad quality foods or the improper combination of foods, and specially too much of stress and enervation and too little rest and sleep, might be the cause...

Anyway, I will go on with only fruits and some nuts... And will report on my progress, and I am really looking forward to hear from the rest of you people, from your experience and thoughts.

Thanks for sharing,

[Oscar]

Vitamin B12 can be produced in our colon, but that is past the point of absorption, so we can't use it at all.

Justin, are you sure your eggs are totally raw and not pasteurized? If the fish isn't organic you could have an adverse reaction to that, even though it's usually not already in the beginning. Another possibility is that it's psychological, but I can't judge that, obviously.

About a vit B12 testimony, read this: viewtopic.php?t=20&highlight=

[justin1]

Justin, are you sure your eggs are totally raw and not pasteurized? If the fish isn't organic you could have an adverse reaction to that, even though it's usually not already in the beginning. Another possibility is that it's psychological, but I can't judge that, obviously. About a vit B12 testimony, read this: viewtopic.php?t=20&highlight=

---Hi Oskar, thanks for your input.
1. Now, when you mention, and while reflecting closer, I am not sure any longer that the eggs I have been consuming are totally raw and not pasteurized..., why...?, because, they sell only "WASHED" eggs..., and my focus have been on buying "organic" free-range chicken eggs..., as well, they don't state "pasteurized" on eggs in Sweden (haven't seen it yet), I have to find out what their "washing" really mean, I suspect it IS a pasteurization..., how can you otherwise "kill" bacteria... It is really a scandal and deception...., as well it is impossible to find out the details... What a world we are living in...
So, I suspect I might never really tried FRESH RAW UNPASTEURIZED EGGS...
I try to verify, and will report as soon as I find out the truth...
2. Thanks for the B12 link, I will read...
3. The heavy adverse reaction from non-organic salmon came not at once..., now I am not able to eat it anymore without getting a heavy reactions...

[Oscar]

Ok. If you want to try again with organic eggs/fish, build it up slowly again. Let your body get used to the fact that this time it is fine.

[johndela1]

because, they sell only "WASHED" eggs..., and my focus have been on buying "organic" free-range chicken eggs...

Check out a farmer's market. I am able to buy most of my food from a farmer's market. I buy fish, eggs, fruits, nuts, and olive oil there. I have to use the regular market to buy bananas and things I want wish are not in season.

The eggs I buy are much larger than super market eggs and I usually buy the double yolked eggs.



http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/505203 (a link to someone's question about finding a farmer's market in Sweden.)

http://www.ekolantbruk.se/ (not English, it looks like something that may be of interest to you, but I don't really know)

[fictor]

To the best of my knowledge, the eggs you buy in Sweeden are not pasteurized, so that is probably not the problem.

I think it might be a bacterial issue, so starting with really small
amounts to build up a resistance is one option. By small amount i am
talking 1/2 teaspoon yolk >

It also, theoretically, could be an allergic reaction, although it is
not normal to be allergic to yolks, and it is unlikely that both
yolks and fish would cause an allergic reaction.

Try to find organic fish (if it is frozen or not does not matter in terms
of allergic reactions, so I suggest this as an experiment, even though I
know you are not too keen on eating pre-frozen fish)

Also, as Oscar says, it could be psychological.

[Cairidh]

hi,
i wonder if there is anyone here, who before wai-diet was vegan, and tried wai-diet with yolks/fish, but went back to vegan again...? - or just become a vegan fruitarian excluding all animal food...?

i have tried wai-diet for a few months now by eating yolks and raw salmon for a while.
Before, i was a raw-vegan for 8-years.

Now i feel very strongly in mind and body, that i must remove all animal based food from my diet.

Thanks to wai-diet, I have completely removed all plants/vegetables from my diet.

I have included some nuts - inshell Brazil nuts - which are really good.

Now, I want to go on with only fruits and some nuts diet.

Very interested to hear your experience on that.

Hi
I've never done the Wai Diet exactly although I used to post on here regularly. Just come back for a lurk to see how everyone is, and surprised that nearly everyone is still posting. Hello *waves* if anyone remembers me.
I have experience of just fruit and nuts, so wanted to post to say please be careful. It's great in theory, but very risky in practise.
I'll try to keep this short......
I was cooked vegetarian for 2 years, then cooked vegan for 1 year, then fruitarian for 6 months. Which really ruined my health! I ate a lot of fruit including avocados, olive oil and squash. My calorie intake was easily high enough but my protein intake was far too low, and I became deficient in everything, but especially protein. My hair became extremely thin, I lost a lot of muscle, my skin became so thin that just wearing shoes would wear deep wounds in my feet which wouldn't heal.
After 6 months I could barely walk and I had to start eating other foods. Not knowing any better I went straight back to cooked vegan. Big mistake!!! My body had completely stopped being adapted to cooked foods, and everything I ate made me violently ill - pain, fever, hangover, raging headaches, every cell in my body feeling poisoned....unbelievable how ill I could become from everyday foods, but its a common experience for raw foodists who eat cooked food after a long time of 100% raw.

I struggled with ill health for years because I didn't know what the problem was, and was too scared to go back to just fruit. Eventually I found out about raw foodism and switched to raw vegan which helped hugely. Raw foods don't make me violently ill, although I don't feel great on the raw vegan diet. (Exhausted and sluggish and weak, poor memory, insomnia, chemical/noise/light sensitivities). This is because after my 6 months on just fruit, everything except fruit (especially vegetables) has a bad affect on me. I know of other people who experienced the exact same thing after eating a fruitarian diet. I don't think is because other foods are bad....its just that we messed up our bodies by only eating fruit.
Since then I have tried eating just fruit for short periods and always feel dramatically better at first, then after a couple of weeks I get deficient again and have to stop.

Then at some point I discovered the Wai website and would have loved to try the diet but I was vegan and just couldn't. In the end I gave in and started eating raw eggs which made me feel stronger, and made me sleep better. (although I was still too scared to give up the raw vegetables - was mostly Wai but with raw vegan munch food). Until I re-read some vegan literature and had to stop buying eggs and was back to raw vegan.

Finally I tried just eating fruit and nuts. Wow!! I felt amazing, and a healer I'd been seeing couldn't believe the difference. I didn't tell her I'd changed my diet but she certainly noticed, and enthused over and over about the difference in me, and said the energy was all flowing, and said whatever you're doing keep doing it, because it's working. However after a few weeks I got deficient and felt awful again and had to stop, and went back to raw vegan.

Since then I have been too scared to try giving up raw vegetables even though I know I feel so much better without them.

Until recently I started asking shops to give me their eggs they throw away which are past their sell by date. They are free and thrown away so it doesn't affect the animals. They are past their sell by but not use by dates so they're perfectly safe. I originally asked for them to wash my hair with because I want to use something natural and wasn't pleased with bicarbonate of soda/vinegar. But every shop I asked gave me 12 - 24 at a time! That's just one shop, in one day. Every shop I've asked has given them quite happily, none has ever said no. In theory I could collect hundreds a day.
So I started adding them to my smoothies (I know thats bad but better than nothing). And felt so much stronger again. A few days I had 12 eggs in a day and the difference in how I felt was dramatic (last time I was only having 6).
I progressed onto eating raw yolks by themselves.

Now the last few days I've finally been brave enough to switch to just fruit, nuts and yolks. (with no raw vegan munchfood! no vegetables, sprouts, or seeds or seaweed). I'm hoping I will feel as good as I do on just fruit and nuts and that the yolks will prevent me getting deficient, so I will be able to eat like this for more than a few weeks.
I don't feel any better yet.....but fingers crossed.

I would really advise anyone to be very careful eating just fruit and nuts.......

The raw vegans who seem to be healthiest are those who eat mostly fruit and greens with some fat. The other primates all eat like this also....our closest relatives the chimpanzees eat 60% fruit, 40% greens. All* the vegetarians in nature make greens their staple food. It seems in nature animals survive on either greens or meat. I think we need one or the other and if you cut out both you'll probably have health problems.
Vegetarians on cooked diets (in different cultures all around the world) eat grains+legumes to replace the greens or meat.
If you're not eating any of these staple foods, I think you'll be in trouble. I'm hoping yolks will help me as they're so nutrient rich.
*somebody's probably going to correct me on this, so I'll say nearly all

You could cut out fish first, see if that stops your symptoms. Or if you do remove both fish and yolks, add dark leafy greens which are very different from the other veg. Or algae or wheatgrass. Some kind of greens.
I don't think humans can survive on just fruit and nuts indefinately...sooner or later they will starve to death....and the stages in between are not pleasant!! I've been there.

Good luck to you x
Sorry if this is too long/boring/irrelevant.

[Cairidh]

Oh one more thing (I'm shutting up soon I promise)...sometimes I've had reactions after feeding my dogs raw meat/fish...sort of as you described except it happened within an hour.....I think it was an allergic reaction...either I accidentally swallowed tiny particles.....or I absorbed them through my skin......once my cat accidentally scratched me while I was preparing a chicken and some of the grease must have gone in the cut, and I felt absolutely dreadful afterwards as if I had flue.

I'm careful to always wear gloves now. And keep my mouth shut. Although that's more difficult.....