Why are fruits so much better than veggies?

[overkees]

I still don't get why fruits would be so much better than some vegetables.

According to you RRM, alot of flavonoids are 'antinutrients' right? They are inhibitors of several processes in the body and therefore not optimal according to your ' no interference theory'. So let me get this straight, if I follow your line of reasoning..

In oranges (your wai superfood) and tangerines there is: Apigenin, Hesperidin, Hesperitin, Naringenin, Naringin, Narirutin, Nobiletin, Quercetin, Rutin, Tangeretin, Tangeritin

(Not even mentioning salicylates and all the other shit.)

The hesperidin amount of OJ is around 400mg/L or narirutin of around 100mg/L. Drinking 3L OJ everyday acounts for 1.2 g of hesperidin and 0.3g nairutin.

But also strawberries: catechin; epicatechin; quercetin-3-glucoside; ficetin, kaempferol-3-glucoside; ellagic acid

And the list goes on and on and on. Every fruit has alot of these 'antinutrients'.

Now of course, there are ' antinutrients' in everything so you will probably say to go by taste. But the sweet taste can hide alot of the bitter antinutrients tastes. Not even mentioning the sour tastes in the fruits. Therefore consuming well picked vegetables with low antinutrient profiles can be even better, because they are not so sweet and you will taste the bitters much better. Therefore going for low sugar, and not a bitter taste would be the best thing to do here. And alot of vegetables will qualify.

I'm not even talking about the benefits of lactofermenting the vegetables before consumption here.

Now we might not 'need' vegetables to stay healthy. Eating vegetables could certainly make us even healthier. And besides, we don't 'need' fruits to be healthy. Alot of people attain good health with whole grains and vegetables too with eggs and milk. I know some of them.
A side note is that I used your definition of health. According to my definition they would be not even near good health. And I myself still do not qualify (but getting closer with the week).

What I need to be convinced following your line of reasoning is a comparison between the concentration of enzyme inhibiting substances in fruits to not so bitter vegetables with low sugar content.

Not even mentioning the evolutionary beneficial reliance on the so called 'antinutrients'. They are everywhere and it are so damn many different ones and they are not essential because the fruits and vegetables grow in season and therefore we couldn't rely 100% on m.A very important fact if you ask me. Seasonal variety. Doesn't means that these natural medicines are sub optimal or interfering with the bodies processes per se. A wrong assumption if you ask me.

[RRM]

What I need to be convinced following your line of reasoning is a comparison between the concentration of enzyme inhibiting substances in fruits to not so bitter vegetables with low sugar content.

Im very much for it.
Could you please supply this comparison for us?
And please include very ripe fruits in that list, because unripe fruits contain quite some anti-nutrients indeed,
to prevent them from being consumed prematurely.
As fruits ripen, these levels go down.

(Not even mentioning salicylates and all the other shit.)

Wiki says: "Unripe fruits and vegetables are natural sources of salicylic acid"

[overkees]

How is this topic non wai? It has got to do with antinutrients and nutrients in fruits compared to vegetables, the wai diet is all about fruits. Moving it to this forum is nonsense. Or is it that you can't proof yourself and that you move it a way so you can ignore it?

The point is that you make the claims that fruits contain most nutrients in comparison to antinutrients. But I never saw any research on this matter on the wai sites, while alot of things are scientifically backed up. Therefore I'm asking you to make the comparisons. Or at least give me some insights in how you came to believe that this statement of fruits being the lowest antinutrient to nutrient ratio is true.

Take carrots for instance, I think that when it comes to juicing they beat alot of fruits nutrientwise. Simply saying it's unwai is a bit stupid if you ask me. You want to keep things simple and say that wai is only about eating fruits. But why is this so? Because of the nutrient:antinutrient ratio. So carrots also qualify in the same line of reasoning.

I never understood this. And think the wai diet would be alot more attracting to a much wider public then it is now. Most people don't like the extreme sweet tastes of the wai diet. It's always sweet tasting. Most people don't want that. Alot of vegetables don't taste bitter and don't taste sweet but have their own unique flavors that I really start craving if I'm strict on wai. Why would I crave vegetables if they are 'not optimal'. Clearly my body knows what's best and putting some borders on the diet by saying only fruits is kind of paradoxal. I thought wai is about listening to what the body needs if you eliminate the addictions?

[RRM]

at least give me some insights in how you came to believe that this statement of fruits being the lowest antinutrient to nutrient ratio is true.

Ok, let me explain to you what the difference is between fruits and veggies.
Fruits ripen. Veggies dont.
As fruits ripen, their anti-nutrient contents keep on going down, and their nutrient value go up, to become attractive.
Veggies dont ripen; they will always retain their level of anti-nutrients.
Why?
Because veggies are the leaves or roots of plants.
These leaves and roots are essential for the survival of that plant.
Therefore, during evolution, these plants have build a defense against predators.
This defense includes anti-nutrients and toxins to various degrees.

With fruits its very different.
Fruits are essential for the tree in a very different way;
They are meant to be attractive for predators. For specific predators.
Not for insects etc, but for predators that may swallow the seeds inside, and spread them.
So, fruits contain anti-insect compounds, but not anti-nutrients that are too much for humans.
Yes, some fruits do, as they apparantly have a different tactic.

That is why fruits (and not all of them) are included in this diet, and veggies are not.
Its just the way it is.

I'm asking you to make the comparisons

If you think im wrong, just prove that to me, because i dont feel any need to gather evidence to proof the obvious to you.
Why is it obvious?
I just explained.
Its also obvious to most nutritionists; hardly any of them will advise you to eat your veggies raw.
Instead they will tell you to steam them, or boil them.
But they will not advise you to cook your fruits.
Its also obvious to the public in general. Few people eat their veggies raw,
whereas most people eat their fruits raw.
Why is that?
Because its also obvious to your body. Your taste.

Still dont see it?
Replace all fruits in your diet with raw veggies for a few months,
and then come back here to report.

[Kasper]

Still dont see it?

Please don't be so arrogant.
This is like how a religious people would argue.
"I don't need to prove that god exist, because it's obvious. Everything must have a creator! Are you too dumb to understand this obvious fact ?"
You're right. Intuitively, what you are saying makes a lot of sense.
But there are thousand of things in science that seems obvious, but are in fact proven wrong.
What about time dilation? Many people claimed that time goes by, independent of how fast you travel. The said they don't need to prove that because it's obvious.
But read this:
"A case of time dilation in action is that astronauts return from missions on the International Space Station (ISS) having aged less than the mission control crew that remained on Earth. Such time dilation has been repeatedly demonstrated (see experimental confirmation below), for instance by small disparities in atomic clocks on Earth and in space, even though both clocks work perfectly (it is not a mechanical malfunction)."

Its also obvious to most nutritionists; hardly any of them will advise you to eat your veggies raw.

This is not because of anti-nutrients. This is because of taste, toxic substances in some veggies, and because some veggies are hard to digest raw.
But not all veggies are toxic. Some like the taste of veggies raw. And juicing makes things easier to digest.
Carrots are eaten raw by a lot of people.
What about squashes ?
The English word "squash" derives from askutasquash (a green thing eaten raw).
Raw pumpkin powder has a delicious taste.

Because veggies are the leaves or roots of plants.

Squashes are not the leaves or roots of a plant right ?

Veggies dont ripen; they will always retain their level of anti-nutrients.

Bell pepper and squashes do ripen.

[overkees]

Because veggies are the leaves or roots of plants.
These leaves and roots are essential for the survival of that plant.
Therefore, during evolution, these plants have build a defense against predators.
This defense includes anti-nutrients and toxins to various degrees.

With fruits its very different.
Fruits are essential for the tree in a very different way;
They are meant to be attractive for predators. For specific predators.
Not for insects etc, but for predators that may swallow the seeds inside, and spread them.
So, fruits contain anti-insect compounds, but not anti-nutrients that are too much for humans.
Yes, some fruits do, as they apparantly have a different tactic.

Reading this I can say this would apply to all the large animals that can eat whole fruits. However, a sheep eats loads of grass. Okay, I know a sheep has 4 stomaches. But let's take chimps. They eat lots of fruit, but also loads of leaves and they eat roots all year round. Even when the fruits are ripe and in season. This means that they need some of these 'antinutrients' to heal themselves and achieve a better health.

What about our teeth? We have grinding teeth that are supposed to chew on fibrous material. Now that Ive fixed my digestive problems I can eat whatever I want and still have perfect stools and no soiling. The tactic is chewing. We have all kinds of enzymes in our saliva to already start digestion. Even if I eat alot of vegetables, whole grains and other fibrous stuff I feel perfectly fine, I feel no difference with going wai.
I like drinking better, so if I'm at home I will have my juice machine. But very very good chewing allows me to eat pretty much all the raw stuff I like.

In addition: Im completely raw now, with some vegetables like carrots, beets, onions, ginger, spinache, barley grass powder, algae). In fact, I can notice a big difference if I don't eat these vegetables. They give me loads of energy. But you won't understand it as you link energy to sugar and fat. Which is again a very simplistic view... I still drink orange juice, but only up to 1L. I eat alot of dried fruits too which only cause trouble when they are not organic, probably due to pesticide content. I can taste pesticides now too.

I can understand that you are so afraid of fiber though.. if you don't chew and have a gut that is malfunctioning with alot of pathogens excreting toxins all day long fiber causes lots of troubles.

What I'm trying to get at is that these medicinal properties in the plants are not so bad as you think they are and can make you alot healthier in a shorter time. Fruit provides the bulk, but excluding vegetables when your body really craves them and they taste so damn delicious you must be very ignorant to ignore these feelings.

The only problem is that it has to be raw to get rid of these addictive substances that mess with your head. ONLY go by taste therefore, amen!

[RRM]

Its also obvious to most nutritionists; hardly any of them will advise you to eat your veggies raw.

This is not because of anti-nutrients. This is because of taste, toxic substances in some veggies, and because some veggies are hard to digest raw.

Of course its also because of anti-nutrients. Anti-nutrients do make up part of the taste.

Carrots are eaten raw by a lot of people.

That does not mean they are as beneficial as fruits are.

What about squashes ?

vegetable-fruits.

Raw pumpkin powder has a delicious taste.

vegetable-fruit.

Because veggies are the leaves or roots of plants.

Squashes are not the leaves or roots of a plant right ?

Indeed.

Veggies dont ripen; they will always retain their level of anti-nutrients.

Bell pepper and squashes do ripen.

Indeed; vegetable fruits.

But let's take chimps. .. also loads of leaves and they eat roots all year round.

Check out their bellies.

This means that they need some of these 'antinutrients' to heal themselves and achieve a better health.

No, it means they have adapted to this diet. Evolution.

What about our teeth? We have grinding teeth that are supposed to chew on fibrous material.

Fruits, meat.

very very good chewing allows me to eat pretty much all the raw stuff I like.

You can eat hamburgers and feel perfectly fine.

I can understand that you are so afraid of fiber though..

Yes, they chase me in my nightmares.

these medicinal properties in the plants are not so bad as you think they are and can make you alot healthier in a shorter time.

So can medicines, but that doesnt mean they make us healthier when you are not sick.

excluding vegetables when your body really craves them and they taste so damn delicious you must be very ignorant to ignore these feelings.

I dont crave veggies.
You might also be ignorant the ignore the cravings for french fries.

ONLY go by taste therefore, amen!

Maybe a chocolate, crisps and burgers and fries diet?
Amen to that.

Again, if you really think that fruits are not better than veggies,
please replace all fruits with veggies and you will feel the difference eventually.
Similar to going back to a 100% cooked diet you will feel the difference,
but not so much so if the bulk comes from juice,
and additionally you daily eat a burger or some fries etc.
Not feeling the difference if the bulk comes from juice, may not mean so much, you understand?

[overkees]

As I said before, we must cut the addictions out. You didnt quote that... please don't get everything out of context.

I said on a raw diet, where there are no addictive damaged proteins and such.

You always manage to get everything out of its context and are suggesting now that I am agreeing on eating french fries because they taste good, which is totally not true and very annoying. Please stop that.

In fact, the longer I am raw the less I like these baked products. I really dislike the taste of baked meats, or french fried meats. Cooked plantstuff is also less and less appealing. (I don't like the taste of french fries anymore, my favorite food).

My addictions to cooked and baked and french fried stuff is slowly fading away and I learn to listen to my body which also tells me to consume beets and carrots and in fact prefers them over things like apples, pears, peaches, grapes, which I really don't like. Also some melons are too sweet tasting in my opinion (watermelons are great tasting to me).

Let me again say what I'm trying to tell but you are putting everything out of its context: Vegetables can be very good for you, and in some cases better than alot of fruits. This is only true if you are on a raw diet and your body tells you to eat them because they taste delicious to you. If it doesn't tastes good: don't eat it.

Please respond to the above statement and don't quote out of the context parts.

[RRM]

You always manage to get everything out of its context and are suggesting now that I am agreeing on eating french fries because they taste good

No, i didnt suggest that. You often misinterpret my writings, but thats ok.
I was responding to acting upon your 'taste ONLY'.
If one does that, and not taking into account nutrient facts, then you may end up with the wrong diet.

Vegetables can be very good for you, and in some cases better than alot of fruits.

If you really think so, you can easily test this.
What is wrong with testing your belief?
Only when consuming lots of raw veggies (without a bulk of fruits), you will learn to know their true character.
So, please replace all your fruits with raw veggies for about 2 months, and then you can compare fruits with veggies.
When the bulk of your diet is fruits, the effects of the veggies easily remain unnoticed.
(equally so with a raw food diet that includes some cooked foods)

[Kasper]

I was responding to acting upon your 'taste ONLY'.

Maybe I intrepreted this wrong, but didn't you once said something like:
When you eat only raw food, and are addiction free, you can trust your taste to what is best for you.

You don't believe this statement anymore?
Or did you said something like:
When you eat only wai food and are addiction free, you can trust your taste to what is best for you.

When the bulk of your diet is fruits, the effects of the veggies easily remain unnoticed.

This statement is already proven wrong by overkees.
Overkees told that he felt better swithcing from no veggies to some veggies.
So the effects of veggies doesn't remain unnoticed at all.

Only when consuming lots of raw veggies (without a bulk of fruits), you will learn to know their true character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byRSHkcG ... 1&index=35
The bulk food of this guy are vegetables (mostly raw green juices).
But it doesn't seem like this true character of vegetables is doing him much harm healthwise (energy levels, skin tone, mood, susceptibility to illnesses).

[RRM]

Maybe I intrepreted this wrong, but didn't you once said something like:
When you eat only raw food, and are addiction free, you can trust your taste to what is best for you.

I said something like that, indeed.
Overkees has not been addiction free; that takes a while.
He has not been on the 100% strict Wai diet for an extended period of time.

When the bulk of your diet is fruits, the effects of the veggies easily remain unnoticed.

This statement is already proven wrong by overkees.
Overkees told that he felt better swithcing from no veggies to some veggies.
So the effects of veggies doesn't remain unnoticed at all.

He could also feel better when incorporating the occasional burger in his diet.
Thats no experiment.
If you want to compare fruits with veggies, you need to go all the way;
comparing consuming only veggies and animal food to consuming only fruits and animal food.
No mixing.

The bulk food of this guy are vegetables (mostly raw green juices). But it doesn't seem like this true character of vegetables is doing him much harm healthwise (energy levels, skin tone, mood, susceptibility to illnesses).

So, did he do a comparison like i suggested?
All fruits vs all veggies?
Or are you just coming up with someone who does great on x diet?
For every diet there are people who do great on it. Does that mean all diets are the best?

Why dont you take my advice?
Just try an all veggies diet versus all fruits (both incl. animal food),
and you can truly judge for yourself whether fruits work better for you than veggies or the other way around.

[overkees]

The guy in the video was a fruitarian for years for cryin out loud....

Have you done such an experiment RRM?

[panacea]

there's more to this story:
some 'vegetables' in stores are actually fruits - cucumbers, tomatoes, bell peppers, for example

due to poor soil, and modern agriculture methods in varying places, fruits may indeed be lacking in some nutrient that a vegetable nearby may have plenty of, and the 'trade off' of the higher antinutrient content might make sense. Of course, RRM saying to replace all fruit intake with all vegetable intake isn't a good experiment or case to support his stance, because that's like saying that just because making your diet 100% consistent of fat, that all fat is bad for you because 100% fat diet would make you feel sick. No duh. Anyway the point is, in reality, given your specific situation, things non-wai may be neccesary or optimal, the problem is there is no real scientific way to know for sure, you can only trick your mind in to feeling 'certain' of things based on how you feel, and that's traditionally not a very good indicator

right now I drink soda like Dr. Pepper (yes I know it's terrible) or spring water along with fully cooked hamburgers, and the rest is all raw beef that is frozen and defrosted in my mouth and some bosc pears as that's the only good tasting fruit in my region (the rest tastes like hard watery fiber and pesticides). I'm striving for a 100% spring water, raw frozen beef, and bosc pear diet but it's really hard to do without the soda or hot food for at least one meal a day, and I believe that has to do with my low body weight, it being freezing, and I'm sedentary with very little to do so it's always on my mind (opposed to someone who has a busy active lifestyle).

The dr. pepper is probably the worst thing, but being as sedentary as I am, the caffiene is the only thing keeping me with regular bowel movements (much better than being constipated trust me). If I had the lifestyle of exercise I wouldn't need to take that compromise. While it's a horrible diet compared to RRM's , and a horrible lifestyle in realms of exercise as well, it keeps me away from candy, grain-based processed food like honeybuns or donuts, overbinging on fast food and all kinds of worse stuff. So it's how I've instinctively adapted to survive and so far I don't get sick or tired all day any more.

[RRM]

The guy in the video was a fruitarian for years for cryin out loud....

Isnt that somebody who doesnt eat animal food?
At least he is good at ignoring his body...

Have you done such an experiment RRM?

No, its obvious to me that leaves are not the optimal food for humans,
and I dont feel the need to make this diet less optimal, just for the sake of
making it 'more attracting to a much wider public then it is now' (or more appealing to you).
But of course, everybody is free to st(r)ay away from the diet as far as one wishes.

fruits and vegetables grow in season and therefore we couldn't rely 100% on m.A very important fact if you ask me. Seasonal variety.

Originally, we are from Africa. Plenty of fruits (oranges, bananas) available all year there.
You live in Holland, and there are plenty of people from Ghana and Nigeria living here, so just ask them.
Seasonal variety?
For what?

[Nina75]

English translation from the internet

In fact, I never look at this post in the forum but I must say it is one of the most surprising. I think I have my own idea of ​​why fruits and vegetables and especially not why this diet (I also found strange the apeller regime because it is just simply eat naturally and not follow the rules dictated by people millairdaires food industry, pharmaceutical industrit, etc).

This is simply hollowing actually. In my opinion Overkess Kasper and if you got this far is that you followed other diets without success or have problems with ... Or maybe I'm wrong ... Nice link on your Anthony Robbins and food, how much are these programs miracles? $ 20-30? $ 50 to achieve miracles?

All information here are in a sense the first full-time, free, credible évidantes. MRR, Oscar and others provides an outstanding job information évidantes and heals from what I've read a lot of people. I read some amazing things here, sick healed, vegetarians, vegans and others follow the diet Wai permanently. How does that happen? You're talking about vegetables but forall everything is clear about them? Not? It's been 10 years since Oscar, MRR continues to provide information to meet people! And you still doubt?

You have cravings vegetables? You know what I think, I think staying on this diet for some time you successfully remove your dépédance for the worst food but you always want vegetables! This is a good sign, it could be envy of pizza or hamburger. I am not a health professional but I would say that définitevement vegetables are useless and in any case they are better than fruit for reasons évidantes and you know very well.

But do what you said MRR, experiment! There to do it for two weeks or more that eating raw vegetables with a little protein Raw. Good luck! Do not cheat by eating only tomatoes and lawyer (Avocat) !

Me personally I can not see myself making me 3 liters of carrot juice per day, eating raw turnips or broccoli. Or take Leeks fitness room.

Finally I am able to respond to this post because I myself experienced. Before I ate vegetables and others, now all that I have to stop short and I'm doing very well. That is all that MRR claims that the plan is it does well, simply.

So you claim this, do it! Come talk to when you have finished experiment. Simply




En fait, je n'avais jamais regarder ce post dans le forum mais je dois dire que c'est un des plus surprenant. Je pense avoir ma petite idée de pourquoi les Fruits et non les légumes et surtout pourquoi ce régime ( je trouve d'ailleurs bizarre de l'apeller régime car c'est juste tout simplement de manger naturellement et non de suivre les régles dicter par des gens millairdaires : industrie alimentaire, industrit pharmaceutique, etc).

Cela est tout simplement évidant en fait. A mon avis Overkess et Kasper si vous êtes arrivés jusqu'içi c'est que vous avez suivit d'autres régimes sans succès ou rencontrer des problèmes avec... Ou peut être que je me trompe... Sympa votre lien sur Anthony Robbins et son alimentation, combien coûtent ces programmes miracles ? 20-30 $ ? 50 $ pour atteindre des miracles ?

Toutes les informations içi sont dans un premier temps plein de sens, gratuit, crédibles, évidantes. MRR, Oscar et d'autres ont fournit un travail remarquable, d'informations évidantes et ont guérit d'après ce que j'ai lu beaucoup de monde. J'ai lu des choses surprenantes içi, des malades guérit, des végétariens, végétaliens et autres suivre la diète Wai définitivement. Comment ça se fait ? Vous parlez des légumes mais pourtout tout est clair à propos d'eux ? Non ? Ca fait 10 ans que Oscar, MRR continue de fournir des informations, de répondre aux gens ! Et vous doutez encore ?

Vous avez des envies de légumes ? Vous savez ce que je pense, je pense que en restant sur cette diète quelque temps vous avez réussit à enlever votre dépédance pour les pires aliments mais vous avez toujours envie de légumes ! C'est bon signe, ça pourrait être des envie de pizza ou hamburger. Je ne suis pas une professionel de santé mais je dirais définitevement que les légumes servent à rien et en aucun cas ils sont mieux que les fruits pour des raisons évidantes et vous le savez très bien.

Mais faites ce que vous dits MRR, expérimenter ! Il y a que ça a faire, pendant deux semaines ou plus manger que des légumes crue avec un peu de protéines Crue. Bonne chance ! Ne trichez pas en ne mangeant que des Tomates et des Avocats hein !

Moi personnelement je me vois mal me faire 3 litres de jus de carotte par jour, de manger des navets ou des brocolis crue. Ou prendre des Poireaux à la salle de Fitness.

Pour terminer je me suis permis de répondre à ce post car j'ai moi même expérimenter. Avant Wai je mangeait des légumes et autres, maintenant tout ça j'ai arrêter et pour faire bref je me porte très bien. C'est à dire tout ce que MRR prétend que le régime fait il le fait bien, tout simplement.

Alors vous prétendez ceçi, faites le ! Revenez en parler à MRR quand vous aurez finit d'expérimenter. Tout simplement.