PROTEIN OVEREATING producing muscle growth.

[thea]

Some experts said you need more proteins for muscle growth. But some said that unecessary. I think the second are right, but when you do some research there are nothing about less protein and good nitrogen balance.
THANK YOU FOR ANSWER


I've gotten quite a few questions lately on my protein recommendations and protein recommendations in general.

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For a synopsis of my thoughts on protein intake, check out these 2 articles:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... judice.htm

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... debate.htm
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One thing that I haven't covered is the difference between digestion, absorption, and utilization. So I figured I'd give them a quick and dirty treatment here. They're the most often confused aspects of protein intake. And if you don't know the difference, it's likely you are making some mistakes in your discussion of protein intake.

PROTEIN DIGESTION:
For starters, nearly all the protein you eat is digested. If it wasn't, your toilet bowl would look like it does a day after eating corn - but you'd see chicken breasts instead of kernels.

PROTEIN ABSORPTION:
As far as absorption, about 90-95% of all the food we eat is absorbed. So any talk of protein digestion/absorption being limited is not accurate. (Unless you have some sort of GI disorder). Nearly all of it is digested and absorbed.

PROTEIN UTILIZATION:
However, utilization is another thing.

To give a definition, the amount of protein utilized is the amount used for protein-energy needs.

Any additional protein beyond your utilization needs is either converted to glucose, with the nitrogen groups (unique to proteins) being converted to urea, and excreted via the urine.

Unfortunately, utilization is based on a ton of factors so I can't give an exact number as to what absolute absorption of protein is. However, I don't think it matters. Here's why...

WASTED PROTEIN:
Yes, if you eat more protein than you utilize, then technically, it will be "wasted" in one sense.

However, using "wasted" as a word isn't necessarily a good choice. For our intents and purposes, after all, it's only "wasted" for producing muscle growth.

Any additional protein that's not used for muscle growth (i.e. "wasted" in most llifters' useage) can be converted to ccarbohydrate - so it's not 100% wasted - it's used for energy.

Sure, carbs are cheaper - but to take a protein to a carb is very calorie-expensive, thus ramping up metabolic rate. This is a good thing and means that even if you "overeat" protein, you'll get a metabolism boost.

Secondly, as I said in the post above - additional protein (even above utilization needs) can provide a ton of benefits including those discussed in the first article.

PROTEIN OVEREATING:
In the end, you've gotta stop thinking of protein as "something I need to get the bare minimum of without going into deficiency" OR "something that I have to take enough of to build muscle - and no more." You need to start thinking of as "the nutrient that stimulates the metabolism, increases rate of turnover and adaptation, and can displace some dietary carbs and fats that might lead to fat gain."

If you were to overeat any nutritient, it should be protein (assuming you've got fully functional kidneys).
__________________
John M. Berardi, PhD, CSCS
President, Science Link, Inc.
Founder, Precision Nutrition
Author, Scrawny to Brawny

[Oscar]

Interesting. The observations are correct, but the conclusions are not.

I personally would count the protein used for muscle growth under "Utilization", as amino acids are used as building blocks for maintenance and new builds.

Sure, carbs are cheaper - but to take a protein to a carb is very calorie-expensive, thus ramping up metabolic rate.

The body has to work harder to convert amino acids to glucose, plus it has to deal with all the nitrogen waste.

You need to start thinking of as "the nutrient that stimulates the metabolism, increases rate of turnover and adaptation, and can displace some dietary carbs and fats that might lead to fat gain.

- Stimulating metabolism = making the body work harder than needed, with more waste products.
- Increasing turnover (not exactly sure what turnover is meant though) = more body cells die.
- Protein too can lead to fat gain...in the end it's a matter of caloric intake vs caloric output.

[RRM]

Thank you for your contribution Thea.
I will move it to the section: "Non-Wai 4 keepers", once you have replied to this post.

To give a definition, the amount of protein utilized is the amount used for protein-energy needs.

Thats one definition. Another one:
The amount of protein utilized is the amount predominantly used for (re)construction purposes.

Any additional protein beyond your utilization needs is either converted to glucose, with the nitrogen groups (unique to proteins) being converted to urea, and excreted via the urine.

..converted into glucose or fatty acids, depending on your specific needs of the moment (caused by a shift in active enzymes).

Any additional protein that's not used for muscle growth (i.e. "wasted" in most llifters' useage) can be converted to ccarbohydrate - so it's not 100% wasted - it's used for energy.

...converted into carbs and/or fat, plus the nitrogen>ammonium>ureum load, indeed, as Oscar pointed out.

This is a good thing and means that even if you "overeat" protein, you'll get a metabolism boost.

Speeding with your car may look impressive and fast, but eventually, your car will break down sooner compared to more moderate drving habits.

additional protein (even above utilization needs) can provide a ton of benefits

What benefits?

"the nutrient that stimulates the metabolism, increases rate of turnover and adaptation, and can displace some dietary carbs and fats that might lead to fat gain."

Protein replacing fats and carbs are converted into fats and carbs.
Increased metabolism results in accelerated ageing.

If you were to overeat any nutritient, it should be protein (assuming you've got fully functional kidneys).

Overeating protein results in weight gain (fat and muscles), water retention in the skin, accelerated ageing and increased nitrogen load.

[johndela1]

Sure, carbs are cheaper - but to take a protein to a carb is very calorie-expensive, thus ramping up metabolic rate. This is a good thing and means that even if you "overeat" protein, you'll get a metabolism boost.

Why is this a good thing? to me it is a bad thing

causing more work and for you body isn't what I am trying to do, not to mention the waste products produced

Somepeople (me included) look to have to metabolism run at the most optimal rate not an in increased rate. I believe doing things that increaes the metabolism also contribute to premature aging of the body.

[thea]

thank you for this good answer.