Reaching CP 60 24/7

[Kasper]

I must say I don't believe limiting cysteine is a good idea at all.
Cysteine is the limiting step in glutathione metabolism. And glutathione is been thought to be the most important anti-oxidant of the human body.

[dime]

Actually this enzyme is the limiting step: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-glut ... synthetase

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 970300143X

Glutamate–cysteine ligase (GCL; also known as γ-glutamylcysteine synthetase) is the rate-limiting enzyme in glutathione (GSH) synthesis.

[Kasper]

Under normal conditions, and given adequate cysteine levels, the rate-limiting enzyme in GSH synthesis is glutamate–cysteine ligase.

True, that's why the body won't overproduce glutathione.
But when you limit cystine in your diet, the rate limiting step will be cysteine.
You body won't be able to produce normal glutathione levels.

The systemic availability of oral glutathione is negligible; the vast majority of it must be manufactured intracellularly. Glutathione (GSH) is a tripeptide made up of the three amino acids cysteine, glycine and glutamate. Glutamate and glycine are readily available in most North American diets, but the availability of cysteine makes it be the rate-limiting substrate for the synthesis of glutathione within the cell. It is the sulfhydryl (thiol) group (SH) of cysteine that serves as proton-donor and is responsible for the biological activity of glutathione. 'The free amino acid cysteine does not represent an ideal delivery system to the cell. It is potentially toxic and is spontaneously catabolized in the gastrointestinal tract and blood plasma. Conversely, cysteine absorbed during digestion as cystine (two cysteine molecules linked by a disulfide bond) in the gastrointestinal tract is more stable than the free amino acid cysteine. The disulfide bond is pepsin and trypsin-resistant, but may be split by heat, low pH, and mechanical stress. Cystine travels safely through the GI tract and blood plasma and is promptly reduced to the two cysteine molecules upon cell entry. IMMUNOCA® can thus be viewed as a cystine delivery vehicle.

Cystine is the preferred form of cysteine for the synthesis of glutathione in macrophages and astrocytes. Lymphocytes and neurons prefer cysteine for glutathione production optimizing glutathione levels in macrophages and astrocytes with cystine allows these cells to provide cysteine to lymphocytes and neurons directly upon demand.

This specially prepared isolate contains the thermolabile proteins serum albumin, alpha lactalbumin and lactoferrin. These proteins contain high levels of cystine residues that could be denatured by heat, low pH, or mechanical stress (inherent to most extraction processes). In serum albumin there are 17 cystine residues and 6 glutamylcystine (Glu-Cys) dipeptides; in lactoferrin, 17 cystine residues and 4 GluCys dipeptides; and in alpha-lactalbumin, 4 cystine residues. In particular, the Glu-Cys dipeptides very readily enter the cell to be synthesized into GSH. Of interest, the Glu-Cys dipeptide is an exclusive feature of the only obligatory foods in the early life of mammals and oviparous species, those being milk and egg white respectively. When subject to heat or shearing forces, the fragile disulfide bonds within these peptides are broken and the bioavailability of the glutathione precursors is greatly diminished. As an antioxidant, glutathione is essential for allowing lymphocytes to express their full potential, without being hampered by oxyradical accumulation during the oxygen requiring development of the immune response. In a similar fashion, GSH delays the muscular fatigue induced by oxyradicals during the aerobic phase of strenuous muscular contraction. As a detoxification agent, glutathione has been demonstrated to be effective against a number of xenobiotics, including chemical pollutants, various carcinogens and ultraviolet radiation.

Glutathione is a tightly regulated intracellular constituent and is limited in its production by negative feedback inhibition of its own synthesis through the enzyme gamma-glutamylcysteine synthetase, thus greatly minimizing any possibility of overdosage.

[overkees]

It is not so much about limiting cysteine. If you consume egg yolks and fish and beef or raw park ham you will get enough of it for building purposes, it is just about the physiological and neurological effects when not taken in the correct ratio with glycine and a not properly working thyroid that it will have its stress effects. Therefore consuming egg yolks with gelatine in one setting is better, assumed your thyroid is working not properly, than eating yolks by themselves.

Therefore, fred, the link you posted about the ray peat diet must be seen in its original context. Namely, the thyroid is too slow and your metabolism needs to speed up to correct this. In that light must most of the advises of ray peat be seen. Chronic stress surpressing. If you are having no thyroid related problems I would certainly not implement ray peats advise. But i have alot of symptoms of a thyroid that is working too slow due to chronic stress in the past. Therefore it needs to restore properly again and this is the reason I take gelatine when eating egg yolks and some other animal.

[overkees]

Okay, so there seems a lot of debate going around the buteyko theory. There have been little to no reports that CO2 is getting a lot higher in Buteyko practioners. There however is less fluctuation, which could be one of the reasons why buteyko works.

But I spoke to Kasper lately and he told me about Arginine, an amino acid that is used to make Nitric Oxide (NO). Nitric Oxide having a lot of anti bacterial, anti fungal, and respiratory related effects. Breathing through the nose is documented to increase Nitric Oxide levels that in turn dissolve the mucus due to the excessive killing of bacteria due to this gas. Now read this article: http://allenpress.com/pdf/biof-36-02-59-63.pdf

This could explain why people haven't adopted the buteyko technique. Because the CO2 theory was just not a correct model for the most respiratory physiologists?

Okay, so I had an ol' fashioned wiki and google search on NO, and a lot of interesting stuff came up: It attracts oxygen, it dilates your vessels, it enhances erections (and essential), it kills pathogens, it smooths out the GI tract, actually it is the most potent muscle relaxer your body makes, and it is a very special neurotransmitter unlike any other and it modulates alot of hormones that are involved in inflammation issues.

So, now we (Kasper, Kasper's family and I) have indeed experienced that Leafy Greens (spinache, wheat grass) give a lot of weird energy and relaxation. I can lalmost immediately notice the muscle relaxation effect. Now comes the interesting connection: Leafy greens and beet contain a lot of nitrate. Dietary nitrate is also an important source of nitric oxide in mammals. When eaten and absorbed into the bloodstream nitrate is concentrated in saliva (about 10 fold) and is reduced to nitrite on the surface of the tongue by a biofilm of commensal facultative anaerobic bacteria. This nitrite is swallowed and reacts with acid and reducing substances in the stomach (such as ascorbate) to produce high concentrations of nitric oxide. The purpose of this mechanism to create NO is thought to be both sterilization of swallowed food, to prevent food poisoning and to maintain gastric mucosal blood flow. A similar mechanism is thought to protect the skin from fungal infections, where nitrate in sweat is reduced to nitrite by skin commensal organisms and then to NO on the slightly acidic skin surface.

Could it be? Could it be that all the buteyko effects are due to a perfect utillization and creation of the NO gas where it is needed? Is this the reason why so many people report HUGE implacts when eating large amounts of leafy greens? That these fix fight the pathogens in our bodies? It is all starting to make a lot of sense to me. Chronic inflammations, buteyko markers to signal the focal infection points, nitric oxide as inflammation solver and oxygen attractor, better distribution of oxygen and using nitric oxide instead and therefore sparing the oxygen where it is not needed and in fact increasing the distribution and exchange and therefore increasing energy levels. Total muscle relaxation so that blood can flow anywhere in the body and everything that every cell needs can be supplied efficiently. Decreasing sleep, because sleep is just the induction of resoration of the damaged body and now it all gets solved during the day. Therefore we only ened our mental sleep which is about 3 hours as earlier established? Therefore we should, next to a wai diet, eat alot of nitrates to even aid us more in the process of fighting chronic infections.

CP in that light is just a measure of how many chronic infections are asking for Nitric Oxide to be solved, but because there isn't enough, Oxygen is used instead and therefore can be used less for our energy system. What do you guys think about this insane new perspective?

[dime]

Sounds interesting and plausible. I've known about NO's effect on relaxing muscles, but not about the other effects.
One detail though: aren't nitrate/nitrites cancerogenous or something similar?
They are used for preserving meat and if I remember correctly have been connected to some bad effects.

I've just learned today about Edmund Jacobson, who developed Progressive Muscle Relaxation, and who lived to 95 attributed to the fact that he really mastered muscle relaxation and mental calmness. I think that being able to keep yourself relaxed is extremely important for good health.

[RRM]

The body has a very effective N-recirculation system.
If the body would need more N, it could simply decrease the excretion of N in the urine.

[fred]

Great information. I will give a try to this dietary source of NO, expecially beetroot juice that looks more Way friendly. I really need to sooth my GI tract, relax my muscles, lower my pulse and fix this arrythmia. NO seems to be the solution on the paper.
BTW, humming can increase nasal NO to 15-fold : http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/content/166/2/144.long
Thank's!

[dime]

Fred, something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILLltMB048

[overkees]

Well, RRM, due to all kinds of damage our body can't produce enough NO and this is not solved simply by decreasing urinary N which has little to do with NO. http://www.nutritionexpress.com/showart ... icleid=286 .

Buteyko breathing can be seen as excercising without using the muscles and therefore inceasing metabolism and NO by hypoxia which the body will try to balance. The importance of nasal breathing at all times is simply because NO is created in large numbers here in the nose and alot of infections come in through the mucus walls in our throat areas, so By breathing less you also breathe less pathogens. Therefore excercising nasally is so extremely beneficial, as experienced by me, kasper and alot of other people doing buteyko. Also, because you will get more energy because your system needs to spend less energy for chronic inflammations you will ingest less pathogens through food because you only ingest what you need for metabolism. Therefore fasting to me and many others also feels very cleansing and is promoted alot for health purposes and spirituality.

Eating healthy is therefore so extremely important, because you will prevent damage and assist your body in rebuilding. And be more efficient. Eating raw meat and fish with alot of protein should be minimized to prevent ingestion of large amounts of energy absorbing protein (?) and energy costing pathogen ingestion. However some of the nutrients are essential and therefore I recommend fats with alot of fat soluble vitamins, like ghee, red palm oil, fermented skate liver oil, fermented cod liver oil, coconut oil as animal sources. Going to research some more, will report later

[overkees]

Minimization is subjective and just experiment with cp fluctuautions to determine whether it was too much. Like thawed salmon always causes problems for me, some goes for egg yolks if I havent been sterile enough. This is why I only consume 6-10 a week warmed up to around 60-70 degrees, it just causes too much trouble otherwise.

Raw parma ham, fresh salmon and fresh herring are always very easy digestiblee for me. The dried ham is godly and is by far the most energy giving protein animal food I ingested so far.

Ghee coconut oil and red palm oil, this combinationis legend btw. Fats areantobacterial and I think therefore better. Fresh salmon with ghee is the best new thing EVER.

[dime]

This is pretty important for the production of nitric oxide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric ... ylarginine

It is closely related to L-arginine, a conditionally-essential amino acid. ADMA interferes with L-arginine in the production of nitric oxide, a key chemical involved in normal endothelial function and, by extension, cardiovascular health.
...
Today biochemical and clinical research continues into the role of ADMA in cardiovascular disease, diabetes mellitus, erectile dysfunction and certain forms of kidney disease.
...
ADMA concentrations are substantially elevated by native or oxidized LDL cholesterol.[3] Thus a spiralling effect occurs with high endothelial LDL levels causing greater ADMA values, which in turn inhibit NO production needed to promote vasodilation. The elimination of ADMA occurs through urine excretion and metabolism by the enzyme dimethylarginine dimethylaminohydrolase (DDAH). The role of homocysteine as a risk factor for cardiovascular disease is suggested to be mediated by homocysteine down-regulating production of DDAH in the body. Polyphenol antioxidants also play a role in down-regulating homocysteine.

but then lateron...

ADMA role has been linked with elevated levels of homocysteine.[6][7][8] Whilst approaches at modifying the latter with oral supplements of folic acid were strongly suggested, studies have shown this fails to give any clinical benefit and suggested that B vitamins might instead increase some cardiovascular risks.[9][10][11]

[RRM]

Well, RRM, due to all kinds of damage our body can't produce enough NO and this is not solved simply by decreasing urinary N which has little to do with NO

NO is a very potent free radical.
NO is produced by monocytes, macrophages and neutrophils inside our body,
from arginine, oxygen and NADPH by a number of (NOS) enzymes.
Arginine (and proline, glutamine, glutamate) is part of the N-recirculation system (eliminating ammonium vs reutilizing N)
If you need more arginine, more N is re-incorporated into arginine and less is secreted (as ureum).
In NO-producing cells, nitrate and nitrite are the end-products.

Your assumption:
We need more nitrate to be able to create more NO.
Your purpose:
To create NO where it is needed.

But, when you ingest nitrate, you will get more NO in the stomach, right? (toxic to bacteria)
NO has a lifetime of a few seconds.
How does that correspond to 'being able to create more NO where it is needed'?
How does that result in relaxing your muscles?

dried ham is godly and is by far the most energy giving protein animal food I ingested so far.

Processed foods from animal origin will contain oxidized cholesterol.
Oxidized cholesterol elevates ADMA concentrations.
ADMA inhibits the NO reaction.

[fred]

Fred, something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILLltMB048

Yogis are used to humming ( "Ommmmmmm" ).

In this paper (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... xsyw2QzGBw), humming during exhalation was used : the subject cures his rhinosinusitis and arrhythmia in just a few days by humming one hour (and 60-120 timesx4 a day).

"The hypothesis that strong low pitch (~130Hz)
humming to greatly increase tissue nasal NO pro-
duction as an effective means of treating CRS
and, coincidentally, cardiac arrhythmias is sup-
ported by these observations."

Humming at least one hour a day to increase NO is probably safer than ingestion large amount of nitrate?

This article is also interesting : http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchi ... 2p48.shtml :
Reap the Benefits of Beetroot Juice — Evidence Suggests It Improves Heart Health and Athletic Performance

[overkees]

RRM can you please give me an article that parma ham contains more oxidized cholesterol than raw egg yolk? Where did you find that or came up with that? They are dried at 1 to 5 degrees celsius in a dark place. It is conserved with seasalt during this process.The pigs get fed grains and parmesan cheese whey protein leftovers. Where is the oxidization of cholesterol according to you?

It is in fact a very good source of nutrition, containing ALOT of B1, B3, B6 and zinc for example (and many more).

Now back to "my assumption," which is in fact not my assumption at all. We don't NEED nitrate, I'm only proposing it is very beneficial to ingest it if there are focal infections in our throat for example. But humming is also a very good technique indeed. This is my assumption which you seem to fail to agree upon and therefore misinterpret almost everything I say. Namely that the human bodies we see around us are in a degenerative state and therefore these systems the body has developed fail to work in most people if not taking other proper measures next to a good diet. Your assumption is that the body will fix everything itself and that we only have to do the wai diet.

In detail:
What I'm trying to say is that our body is surviving and trying to make the best of it, that's why these circulatory systems work the way you say. It is doing everything it has in it's capacity to destroy the inflamed areas and restoring them. However, in the process oxidative stress and free radicals are caused (otherwise the body doesn't know where to go and restore, like a marker on paper attracts attention, the body attracts due to inflammating areas) and this prevents us from having more energy, because additional oxygen is needed to aid in the process of restoring. So it can't be used for energy. That is why we need to get clear markers on where the chronic inflammations are in our body, like athletete's feet, not properly working guts and dandruff for example (there are alot more of course). Then we can tackle these areas and try to maintain a good health by supllying foods that restore our body and don't cause extra stress on the body. Therefore breath training is essential because we haven't adapted to these kind of sedentary life styles with so much new forms of stress and concentrated infective and toxic environments. The NO that is so essential and not regulated by the body unconsciously is in my opinion the dilating effects on the blood vessels and making it easier for oxygen to come into the cells. Because there is less resistance due to less tension: the oxygen can reach all places better and toxic substances can be eliminated faster. Therefore the NEED of physical endurance exercise and also relaxing muscles and not stressing out is so essentially important. The body can do all it can, but it also depends on certain factors like activity of our body and no stress to get better at these tasks. This is my theory..

Summary: The body just does what is best for to support and repair itself at any point, but it can't change the input it's getting that is needed for it to function better at maintaining and repairing itself, this input consists of: activity, relaxing, no stress, no high concentrations of toxins and pathogens.

So you see? Everytime I (and Kasper too) propose something it is for healing, because we believe the body is not in it's evolutionary natural safe state that it developped in due to a lot of factors nowadays. Therefore I am taking some "supplements*" next to the wai diet and sharing my experiences. Everytime we do that, you come and post something like: But the body has perfect regulatory mechanisms for that. This isn't the point, I believe the body can prevent worsening of the symptoms under every imput it gets. But you seem to don't share the opinion of chronic inflammations that need to be healed, or you just simply don't consider these as bad for you. So please, if you think that the body will resolve these inflammations by doing only the wai diet we have nothing to discuss, but we (the people ) are experiencing otherwise and really see little to no improvements at these inflammatory areas.

*supplements in the form of beets, carrots and a small portion of chlorella and barley grass for experimentation. I quitted chocolate, because the chlorella and barley grass supply extra minerals I consider as benificial for healing.

Personal experiences I would like to share: Okay, so to inform you from my personal experiences: I came to wai diet with having a sleep problem that I slept longer than 12 hours naturally every day. Wai diet seemed to help a bit and getting my mean to 10-11 hours, but still sometimes I had 16 hours or more of sleeping. I was +90% for months and alot of days even 100%. I did still smoke, though.
I added buteyko and exercising to my regime and this seemed to make me able to live reasonably with 8 hours of sleep with alarm clocks and people waking me up. Still overlseeping on a lot of occassions. I started at a CP of 15-20 and worked up to 30 pretty quick. Alot of mistakes and still smoking (although a lot less) led to reaching 35CP constantly. But still, sleep sucked, though my energy was alot better and brain fogs were decreasing. I never experienced tension headaches ever after this CP. I had ALOT of them, also prior to wai.
I added running, alot of energetic benefits, I noticed I needed alot less energy (even less now!). My sleeping was slowly normalizing to 9-10 hours of sleep naturally with some instances of 12 or 13 hours. Quiting smoking totally and introducing probiotics (damn the brain fogs were back in the beginning of the supplementation and they were hell) got me to 8-9 hours naturally.
This is where I was 7-10 weeks ago. I introduced more carrots and beets and chocolate and quited probiotics. I am running alot and feeling really energetic. I am sleeping 7 hours average during the week with an alarm clock and in the weekend 9 hours.
But the last 2 weeks have been REALLY AWESOME: I am sleeping an average of 5-6 hours naturally at the moment! I wake up before the alarm clock on most of the days. This really is a breakthrough experience. At the end of the week I get a little bit tired and in the weekend I sleep 8 hours, because I still need my alarm clock on some days. I can run 10km nasally comfortably and run 7km on average now. I am also able to do 5km on barefoot without blisters, 2-3 times a week. What is the difference these last 2 weeks? I added a tiny bit of chlorella and barley grass (3 hours before sleeping) and consume grass fed ghee, red palm oil, coconut oil, fermented skate liver oil every morning.