(some) Dairy is Included (as munch food only)

[avalon]

Edit by RRM: This poster refers to the Wai diet once you managed to totally clear your skin with help of the acne sample diet. Dont let this post confuse you; dairy is excluded. Only once your skin is totally clear, you can start experimenting with munch foods, inlcuding low-protein dairy products. End edit RRM

Post by Avalon:

Whose idea was this as a topic heading to say Dairy is Excluded?

Dairy is Included.

Why do I find myself defending the Free Acne Book to its Creators? I submit a list of Dairy Items Included in the Single Munch Food and Munch Food Recipe section of the Book. I believe cottage cheese is listed but I couldn't find it this time.

Mascarpone Polenghi cheese
full fat cream
Ice cream
cream cheese
whipped cream
ricotta cheese
real butter
feta cheese
yogurt
sour cream

Revisionist History? If my words sound a tad miffed, it's because I am I guess. It's as if the Creators of this Book forget what was written. It's right there for all to see.

To Quote The Book:

24. What Foods Are Included In This diet?

To decrease cellulite or acne, moisture excess in the skin must be decreased. To decrease this cutanous moisture excess, the intake of 'dirty' protein and salt must be decreased;

1) Women with cellulite can eliminate cellulite by eating generous amounts of fruits (including avocado, tomato,
cucumber, olives, etc.), raw nuts and some fresh raw fish or egg yolk together with maximally two 'munch-food' items like chocolate, potato chips, cream cheese, etc. a day. The same treatment applies for mild acne.

2)Those who suffer from extremely severe acne might find it necessary to eliminate all prepared foods, spices, and salt from their diet in order to have a totally clean skin. They would have to rely solely upon fresh fruits (including avocado, tomato, cucumber, olives, etc.), dried fruits, raw nuts, and some fresh raw animal food only.

Included, Not Excluded.

Part 3
The Diet

Excess cutaneous moisture in the skin must be lessened to eliminate
or reduce cellulite or acne. To accomplish this the intake of salt and
'dirty' protein must be drastically decreased.
The daily diet to accomplish this consists of these three components:

A
2 kg / 4.4 lbs. fruits (minimally) including a few Brazil nuts, avocado, and a tomato-cucumber salad, and supplementary fruits.
B
50 gram / 1¾ ounces fresh raw fish (sashimi) or 2 to 3 fresh raw egg yolks (or more)
C
2 munch-food items or 1 munch-food meal to satisfy cravings.

I am The Keeper of Wai, as was written and shall remain true.

Avalon
Keeper of Wai

P.S. Time for my one slice of Bread and Butter. My Favotite bread is RUBSCHLAGER!!! There are practically no ingredients. Very Old World. Also KerryGold Pure Irish Butter. I can't get my hands on raw butter easily, but this butter is creamy even from the frige and is from Grass fed cows!

[Oscar]

Still holier than thou, huh?
I do agree with you that things aren't clear enough at the moment, though. But rest assured, we're working on it.

[RRM]

Regarding munch food, all foods are included (if there is low protein version available).
Regarding non-munch foods, only fruits and raw animal food are included.
Its that simple.

[avalon]

RRM wrote:

Regarding munch food, all foods are included (if there is low protein version available).
Regarding non-munch foods, only fruits and raw animal food are included.
Its that simple.

First, you forgot Fats- Oils- olive coconut etc.

Second, you're bunking. It's bunk. Did you read the Book?

The daily diet to accomplish this consists of these three components:

THREE.

C
2 munch-food items or 1 munch-food meal to satisfy cravings.

Dear Oscar, how am I holier than thou? when it is 'them' that forget what is written. You say dairy is excluded. I say, the Book says it is included, in Munch Foods. In fact there, right there is the word INCLUDED.

123, abc- C= Munch Foods. And Daily!!! Not even that I want to eat them daily!!!

I have no problem with your "we're working on it" but it frightens me a little. Hey, every thing evolves. Update the book. The problem is the original will still exist and I am only going by what I've read. I'm not quoting Atkins or Zone. This is about the Free Acne Book.

Best wishes,
Avalon

p.s. This isn't easy. I didn't come to this forum to find conflict. I came here because I believed in the Diet. Seriously, we all take what we believe. But I know what I read. And as I wrote long ago- there is a division here at Wai community and a denial of what was written.

Don't say Dairy is excluded, unless you qualify it to the Sample diet. Because otherwise is misleading and wrong.

[avalon]

Let me say that the title of my post was changed from 'Dairy is included' to the above. I'm sad to say that the owners of this forum change headings to suit their own agenda so readers I guess don't think for themselves. This is not the first time this has happened.

The funny thing is I am not opposing Wai, but quoting Wai more than 90% of the time. I don't deny that aspects of Wai Diet concern me, but they are small (three things only)compared to the deniability that seems rampant here. Primarily with RRM and you too Oscar.

By changing Headers you skew bias toward your beliefs and alter the original posters conception/question...

Do you get how this can be worrisome?

[Oscar]

Dear Oscar, how am I holier than thou? when it is 'them' that forget what is written.

I rest my case.

You seem to forget this is not a free open forum. You cannot say anything you want here. Yes, posts are scrutinized and things are edited/deleted when we deem it necessary. If you want a forum where you can decide the rules, start your own. I'm sure AvalonDiet.com is still available.

[RRM]

Did you read the Book?

I co-wrote it.

Don't say Dairy is excluded, unless you qualify it to the Sample diet. Because otherwise is misleading and wrong.

This is the Acneboard (www.acneboard.com) as well as WaiTalk (www.waitalk.com)
The acne sample diet is the core diet on this board.
Dairy is excluded from this core diet.
The book is the free acne book (www.freeacnebook.com) that was also written for cellulite and overweight. The munch foods were only introduced to enable you to do the diet if you (like most people) cannot do the core / strict / sample diet.
Dairy is excluded from the core diet.
If you need munch foods, then some dairy products may be included as a munch food, if they contain very little protein, that is.
On principal, they are excluded.

By changing Headers you skew bias toward your beliefs

Waisays is written according Wai's and my beliefs.
The principle purpose of this acne board is to help people to get rid of their acne by aiding them in interpreting the sample diet rules correctly.
So, yes, every thread needs to be in support of those sample diet rules, and not to confuse those who want to give the sample diet a try.
Once you managed to clear your skin from acne, you can start experimenting with whatever you like, including low-protein dairy products. But the acne sample diet comes first.

If you want to direct people in a different direction, please post in the 'other opinions' section.
We have been here before, but I have to warn you again not to post advice that goes against the sample diet rules. Please respect the rules of this board. (you may want to go to "register" again to read those rules)

[avalon]

Dear RRM,

First, I agree with you that Dairy is not included in the core(Sample Diet).

You wrote:

On principal, they are excluded.

I disagree with this- pertaining to the Free Acne Book. Is it ok for me to disagree?

How am I posting against Sample Diet Rules? I've never written that Dairy is allowed in the Sample diet. The one mistake I made I believe is not being clear about the initial period. I believe Wai mention at least the first two weeks, but I understand it may take longer before you can re-introduce munch foods if you wish.

I will read the rules.

[Marty]

I do not wish to make even heavier weather of this exchange, but I found all of the information on the site; in the book; in RRM's reasoning perfectly congruent with the idea that one must experiment after completing the sample diet...

Indeed in so many ways, the diet frees you from dogma (including some strict adherence to its principles without proof that they 'work')....


In that vein, I did find that the munchfoods were self-limiting....That I easily indulged in them for a time after the early stage, then lost the taste for many of them....

The munchfoods, very briefly, and with no pressure, helped me feel and see in a million ways how the body operates.

Eventually their use just died out.

I see them as a constructive part of 'listening' to the body. RRM says as much, really.

This is part of the nuance of the diet, as it were-- Its not strict dogma after you learn the basics. It will not hold your hand and say yes or no; your signals are really from your own body, not the RRM police standing there admonishing you. I believe his responses have not been strict injunctions to eat this or eat that over time, but simply exhaustive explanations of his own reasoning... It becomes perfectly clear, no? And if you are having a problem with the sample diet due to some other intolerance (fiber, etc) then there are similar logical ways to rule things out, based on your own body's signals, perhaps with some suggestions from othis board on how to proceed.....and not based on illogic by RRM to simply shut out or include things for no reason....