JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

[RRM]

My maintenance level was about 2800 calories pre-Warrior, and it doesn't seem to have changed. ... My eating window is still 13:00-20:00.

Your eating window is quite big, which means that there is relatively little autophagy,
which might explain some of the lack of change in energy requirements.

[JeffC]

Yes, I think that I should try to tighten the window. I can move the pre-work meal to post-work, and then have the big second meal about an hour later. I can experiment with how long I wait to start drinking the OJ at work as well. For now I'm going to move to a 5-hour window (15:00-20:00). Hypothetically, I could compress it down to 2 hours (18:00-20:00).

15:00-18:00: (work=cardio): OJ while working [13% of calories]
19:00: strawberries & coconut oil; fish & tomato [21% of calories]
(19:45-20:00: muscle training)
20:00: liver, beef, butter, yolks, tomato [66% of calories]

But I think that I was wrong about the 2800 calorie number. The maintenance level may be a little lower now. I think that the 2750 I was doing last week is too much. I shouldn't have changed two variables at the same time (calories and protein). I'm going to keep the protein up but reduce the calories to 2625 with less fat.

129 lb
30.0 in waist
41 chinups

[JeffC]

I completed the transition this week. Everything is within a 5-hour window (15:30-20:30) instead of 7 hours. And in the first 3.5 hours, I'm taking only 14% of my daily calories (juice during work). And so 86% of my daily calories come within a 1.5-hour window (19:00-20:30). I have no trouble taking in all that meat at once.

I have found that this window is actually easier. Before, I felt like I was trying to 'hold out' until 13:00 came around. Now I know I'm not getting any food. It's easier when I'm not thinking about food. At work I don't feel hungry and food isn't on my mind.

I cut down to 2442 calories at the moment. Everything that I removed was fat (coconut oil and butter). Increasing the protein from 110 g to 122 g was really helpful. I feel like it's enough, or close to it (I could eat more). I think my moods are better without that craving for more protein. My waist is still 30.0 inches, and I'm dissatisfied there. My top goal is to reduce stomach fat; gaining muscle is second.

I wonder if less sleep is needed on Warrior. I feel like I've needed a little less than usual lately. When you're sick, your body wants to sleep longer than usual because it has a lot maintenance to do. But if you're healthy and autophagy occurs, then wouldn't there would be less maintenance necessary? And so the demand for sleep would be lowered. This conclusion is similar to the Buteyko ideas (healthier people, defined as slower breathers, need less sleep). I suspect the standard 7-9 hour sleep suggestion is based on the average person's health, rather than a person in excellent health.

[RRM]

I wonder if less sleep is needed on Warrior.

In my experience that's not the case.

if you're healthy and autophagy occurs, then wouldn't there would be less maintenance necessary?

Yes, less cells need to be reconstructed from scratch,
but maybe your defence still needs equally much sleep to function optimally.
Sleeping involves so many processes and hormone metabolisms; I doubt that increasing autophagy will (always) change that entire clockwork.

[panacea]

What are the benefits to this diet versus a normal wai diet, as both seem to make people generally feel better in the long run, does this "extreme" diet have any potential rewards that you're going for? (I'm guessing it's to look younger for longer or live longer?)

[Oscar]

During bodily processes cell organelles break down. Under 'normal' circumstances these organelles will accumulate in the cell, until it is no longer possible to keep the cell working. The cell will then be renewed. During a lifetime, there are only a limited number of cell mitoses possible (because of the telomeres). When mitosis isn't possible anymore, the body will start to break down, and eventually one will die. For a longer life it is therefore needed to limit cell renewal. On Wai Regular we limit cell renewal as much as possible.

Enter autophagy. This process breaks down the broken cell organelles and converts them to energy. This means that the cells will be cleaned up regularly, and therefore live much longer. So how do we invoke this process? When our reserves (glycogen depots) are empty and no energy is consumed, the body has to look for alternative energy sources. These can be muscles, fat, and energy through autophagy. This is the idea behind Wai Warrior.

[JeffC]

does this "extreme" diet have any potential rewards that you're going for? (I'm guessing it's to look younger for longer or live longer?)

My primary reason is that I want to be more physically attractive. My top priority is lowering my body fat. I also want bigger muscles. There are other reasons as well. I wouldn't do it if it weren't beneficial for long-term health. It's easier for my daily schedule. And it if requires less calories, then that's less money that I have to spend on food.

Over the last 10 days or so, the combination of a smaller eating window, less calories, and more physical activity (longer work hours) has had a significant impact. Half an inch melted off of my waist, and so I'm back down to 29.5". My weight is down to 126.5 lb right now. But the critical thing is that I don't think that I lost any muscle mass. All of my measurements, other than waist, seem to be the same. Actually I may have gained a quarter inch on my biceps.

I'm trying not to be too concerned about lack of weight, even though I believe my ideal is 144 lb. I expect it to take more than a year to pack on that much pure muscle. I'd rather be a ripped 120 lb than a fat 144 lb.

[JeffC]

After another week, I'm starting to think that this 2400-2500 calorie area is my maintenance level now. If it is 2450, that would be -12.5% calories from 2800. I'm still figuring it out. I'm changing things up a little.

I'm simplifying the foods. Strawberries and butter are unnecessary. I don't want to cut out coconut oil completely, and so it replaces butter (0.5 tbsp/day). Thus I will utilize The Seven Wonders of the Food World: fish, beef, yolks, liver, OJ, tomato, and coconut oil.

I've been stuck at 40 chinups. And so I'll try increasing the carbs with more OJ. I'm also going to try carb cycling. The 5 days that I work (physically very active) will have more juice, and then I'll take in less calories/juice on the weekend when I rest more. It will average out to around 2500 calories.

Proposed 18/6 split (work days):
14:30-18:30: OJ [25% of calories] (*4-hour cardio here*)
19:00-19:30: fish [10% of calories]
(*muscle training here*)
20:00-20:30: massive protein meal [65% of calories]

127.5 lb / 29.75-inch waist today.

[JeffC]

I ended up not doing the carb cycling. The reason is that my waist was slightly growing again, up to 30 inches. It seems that 2500 calories may still have been too much. I went down to 2350 calories a week ago, and my waist is back to 29.75 inches. My body still seems to be adapting.

When I did chinups on 27 May, I somehow did 47 of them (usually 40). It was at night after a long work day. I had taken about 600 of my daily calories at the time.

My heart feels stronger lately. I haven't been doing any special cardio exercises. I think it's autophagy.

[JeffC]

I've been operating on 2350-2400 calories, which is pretty close to maintenance level. So I need about -15% calories than I did before warrior. My waist is about 29.5 inches right now at 126 lb.

I think that my chinup improvement is legit. I did 48 yesterday.

I made a change, substituting more orange juice for less beef. My calorie splits now are 50% fat, 30% carb, 20% protein.

My eating window is still about 5.5 hours. But the first 4 of those hours are all orange juice while working. About 700 calories of carbs. Then, since I'm not starving when I get home, I can do my strength training before I eat. Afterward I stuff myself with 1700 calories of fat and protein in a 1.5 hour window.

15:00-19:00: Orange juice (during physical work)
(strength training here)
19:00-20:30: Fish, chicken liver, beef, yolks, coconut oil, tomato.

[JeffC]

I made a change, substituting more orange juice for less beef. My calorie splits now are 50% fat, 30% carb, 20% protein.

I undid this change. Back to less orange juice and more beef. Calorie splits 64% fat, 16% carb, 20% protein. I was picking up signs from my body that it didn't appreciate that much sugar, even after nearly 20 hours of fasting. I prefer the beef anyway.

Everything else is unchanged.

5.5 hour window, but 85% of the calories are jammed into 1.5 hours.
2375 calories seems like maintenance at 127 lb (-15% from pre-Warrior).
29.5 inch waist.
~45 chinups.

[JeffC]

I've been on Wai Warrior for 3 months now. Here's a recap.

I compared my stats today with 3 months ago. I'm 1.5 lb lighter (128 lb then, 126.5 lb now). The only change in my measurements is that my biceps have gained from 12.75 inches then to 13.25 inches now. My waist is still 29.5 inches.

The most notable benefit has been that maintenance calories have been reduced from 2800 to 2400 (-14.3%). Chinups have increased from 30 to 50, but that may be coincidental timing. I also believe (but cannot say for sure scientifically) that my heart is healthier. I cannot say anything for certain about the cellular cleanup process.

Numbers:
2400 calories.
62% fat / 16% carb / 22% protein.
167 g fat / 95 g carb / 130 g protein.
I cannot increase the carbs above this level. It causes problems for me.

5.5-hour eating window.
First 4 hours: Orange juice (345 calories, 14.4% of calories).
Last 1.5 hours: Fish, tomato, chicken liver, beef, egg yolk, coconut oil (2055 calories, 85.6% of calories).

Muscle training schedule:
Sunday: Triceps
Monday: Back
Tuesday: Abs
Wednesday: Chest
Thursday: Abs
Friday: Back
Saturday: Legs

Ultimate goals:
144 lb
Neck 16.5 inches
Biceps 16.5 inches
Waist 26.5 inches
Chest 43 inches
Calves 16.5 inches
Thighs 26.5 inches

[RRM]

Thank you for reporting in such detail.

[JeffC]

Of all amino acids, methionine by far inhibits autophagy the most.
Methionine (protein) restriction induces autophagy.

Methionine content in relevant meat products:

1 chicken drumstick (118 calories): 379 mg
2 sardines (50 calories): 175 mg
1 oz lobster (25 calories): 148 mg
1 oz chicken liver (32 calories): 121 mg
1 oz ground beef 70/30 (93 calories): 98.3 mg
1 large egg yolk (54 calories): 64.3 mg

If we standardize methionine mg per calorie with ground beef at a value of '100':

Lobster 550.6
Chicken liver: 351.7
Fatty fish: 325.5
Chicken drumstick: 298.7
Egg yolk: 110.7
Ground beef 70/30: 100

I calculate that I'm getting more than 3000 mg of methionine per day. That's definitely excessive. I will immediately reduce the liver. And I will figure out how to cut back on fish as well. (I'll cut it in half but I need calories from elsewhere.) I'll update the numbers soon.

I've read that there's no benefit to protein beyond 0.82 g/lb. For me, that's 105 g of protein per day. I was at 130 g. I will try to cut back to 105-110 g. However I know from previous experimentation on Wai regular (which I did for about 6 years) that if my protein intake isn't at a relatively high level, I get intense cravings for meat.

[RRM]

I will figure out how to cut back on fish as well.
... if my protein intake isn't at a relatively high level, I get intense cravings for meat.

130 gram is not much at all, given that you fast intermittently.
Imo you should listen to your cravings for protein, and not reduce protein intake.
Keep in mind that protein levels fluctuate very much.
During fasting these levels will be low, not substantially inhibiting autophagy.
After fasting, both your blood sugar and methionine will go up, both inhibiting autophagy, but that is ok, as this the the rebuilding / anabolic phase.
During the day, as you will deplete your glycogen stores, the methionine level will go further down as well.
You need to find your balance between maintaining muscle mass and optimizing autophagy.