Open the pdf about protein debate

thea · Post by **thea** » Mon 01 Jan 2007 15:32

Open the pdf about protein debate with Loren Cordain, PhD & T. Colin Campbell, PhD

http://www.performancemenu.com/resource ... Debate.php

thea · Post by **thea** » Mon 01 Jan 2007 18:35

Dr. Loren Cordain (The Paleo Diet) and Dr. T. Colin Campbell (The China Study) make their arguments for amount and type of dietary protein for optimal health

I agree from this text of Craig Cooper :

-Cordain needs to get on board with saturated fat.
-Campbell sounded like a junior highschool student defending his opinions.
-Campbell provided no references, suggesting that his word is dogma.
-I have a big problem with Campbell's assertion that double-blind, controlled clinical trials have no place in nutritional science.
-I have an even bigger problem with Campbell's assertion that epidemiological studies can provide compelling evidence if used properly.
-I have a huge problem with Campbell's "what works for evolution vs. what works for long-term health" comparison. Talk about reductionist science!
-Cordain's first point in his rebuttal renders Campbell's entire debate meaningless. Campbell's protein "requirements" are based on the assumption that the only use for protein is to replace nitrogen in the body. That indeed is quite the oversimplification.

I really tried to read this debate with an objective, open mind, but it's really difficult when I found myself immediately observing flaws in Campbell's arguements.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Tue 02 Jan 2007 11:06

Essential points to me:

- comparing different species, nitrogen load is negatively related to life span
- a high protein diet comes with water retention
- a high cooked protein diet comes with a high intake of toxic HCA

thea · Post by **thea** » Tue 02 Jan 2007 13:43

RRM wrote:Essential points to me:

- comparing different species, nitrogen load is negatively related to life span
- a high protein diet comes with water retention
- a high cooked protein diet comes with a high intake of toxic HCA

I agree now with you because I don't lose muscle with 60 gr a day of protein, and I feel better with raw protein diet.

I think that you think that Pr Campell is right about the quantity of protein but I think that you disagree about animal protein cause cancer.
No raw animal food cause cancer, do you agree with that, only cooked animal protein cause cancer.

Yesterday, I've triing to eat for breakast just for one day 500 gr of raw meat with 3 eggs (because Ive reading the book of Aajonus Vonderplanitz) and all the day I've big energy, without water retention. Can you explain that ? Maybe it's just one day.

What your opignion of this guy Aajonus Vonderplanitz ? He eat a lot of protein !!!

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Tue 02 Jan 2007 17:07

thea wrote:No raw animal food cause cancer, do you agree with that, only cooked animal protein cause cancer.

I agree.
But there is still the nitrogen load; predators also eat raw protein, but still dont live as long as herbivores or omnivores.

Yesterday, I've triing to eat for breakast just for one day 500 gr of raw meat with 3 eggs (because Ive reading the book of Aajonus Vonderplanitz) and all the day I've big energy

Of course you have. The large amount of protein fills up your glycogen depots (and creates some additional bodyfat), so that you will remain energetic.

without water retention. Can you explain that ?

Im talking about the subtle water retention that causes acne if your skin produces muchh sebum, and accelerates aging of the skin. I was not talking about full blown edema that is clearly visible.

What your opignion of this guy Aajonus Vonderplanitz ? He eat a lot of protein !!!

I dont have an opinion about the person.
I just feel that the nitrogen overload is not beneficial (health wise), and that the elevated blood protein levels are disastrous if you are very susceptible to acne (like I am).

thea · Post by **thea** » Tue 02 Jan 2007 17:38

thank for answer.

I agree with you that too much protein is bad, but it's hard to explain your theory because here in Europe Leo Cordain have a good reputation with doctors because he give many references study (like the report with Dr Campell)

He explain that you have in your gut "the good arsenal" to digest high protein because it' ancestral.

Me I trust you because I try Wai diet and it's work. But many doctors are to lazy to change diet, they speak a lot but don't change anything : go to restaurant, eat cooked food...

Explain to me when or how you discover that you don't need so much protein ?

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Tue 02 Jan 2007 19:00

thea wrote:He explain that you have in your gut "the good arsenal" to digest high protein because it' ancestral.

That doesnt sound too much solid argumentation to me.
I doubt whether its ancestral for humans to eat much protein.
What I do know for sure, is that its ancestral for lions and other predators to eat much protein. And even in them this does not eliminate the fact that their lifespan is shorter than that of comparable herbivores / omnivores.

Explain to me when or how you discover that you don't need so much protein ?

When I started experimenting with diet to eliminate my acne.
For the past decade ive been consuming about 63% to 72% of recommended daily amino acid intake (WHO recommendations), which is about 170% to 194% of minimal requirements.
It suits me perfectly fine to remain in nitrogen balance and muscular / ripped. (given that I always ingest enough energy)

twinee1 · Post by **twinee1** » Thu 22 Feb 2007 14:26

I ate in excess of 55% of my diet in Protein for years (bodybuilding competitor) and ended up with issues...so I went Raw over a year ago and dropped my protein to l35-50 grams a day, and I have not lost any muscle due to this ! AND I feel 100% BETTER, so thats proof for me !

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Fri 23 Feb 2007 21:52

Wow.
So, how much protein did you consume in total, daily?

twinee1 wrote:I went Raw over a year ago and dropped my protein to l35-50 grams a day,

Is that including proteins from fruits etc.?
Mine is about 55 to 65 grams in total, from 133 grams of salmon, plus some tomatoes, cucumber, avocado and lots of OJ.