My Story

Share your testimony to encourage others.
ATK
Posts: 9
https://cutt.ly/meble-kuchenne-wroclaw
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:01

My Story

Post by ATK »

Hi.

Having lurked on both this forum (and the old one) for about a month, and having profited tremendously from the knowledge therein and on waisays.com, the time has come for me to attempt to repay this community, RRM and Wai for the tremendously positive effect they have wrought on my life. I will attempt to summarize my dietary experiences heretofore, and also make some observations at the end that I hope will benefit fellow lurkers and allow them to reach their own individual conclusions with greater confidence. Read this if you would like to—honestly, it is cathartic for me to just write it, and in that regard, I am satisfied if it receives no attention.
Two years ago, at the age of seventeen, I made the decision to become a vegetarian. The reason I chose to do this was motivated in part by ethical concerns, but indeed primarily due to my perception of vegetarianism being a healthier lifestyle in general. Having been overweight for most of my childhood (and, ironically, becoming slim a few months prior to making this decision due to an omnivorous diet with regular exercise), nutrition and health was always on my mind from an early age, and exercising responsibility in choices relevant to the two was always a preoccupation for me. A few months later, I made the transition to full veganism.
I like restrictive diets, and indeed, may have some sort of mild obsessive-compulsive fixation with them, but never to the degree of an eating disorder. I have no doubt flirted with ‘orthorexia’ on occasion, but have always been open to the concerns and opinions of my friends and family. I am sure many who have come from an overweight childhood can empathize with this capricious tendency to fixate on food even after the excess weight has been lost. What I ate, or how it tasted, never really mattered per se; what mattered most to me was nutritional content, charts, RDAs, and so forth. Thus, I had no real challenge eliminating meat and dairy products as a whole, eagerly replacing them with varieties of grains, legumes, soy milk and processed cereals. I wore hemp sandals, played the pan flute, and indeed even had some respectable dreadlocks for a period of time (http://www.dreadheadhq.com/dreadpics/viewer.php).
Thus was the status quo until roughly three months ago. During that time, I gained many pounds of fat, and experienced a resurgence in the acne that I had suffered from throughout high school. I had managed to eliminate it prior to becoming an undergraduate through the use of oral antibiotics (doxycycline), Differin, Benzoyl-peroxide, and salicylic acid topical washes. However, despite these continued treatments, I once again had bad skin, to my distress. I was not quite sure what to attribute this to, as I was sure that diet was not a factor (and even if it was, the presumption was that my diet was exemplary). Uncertain about the causes, I was prescribed a topical antibiotic (clindamyocin), which managed to alleviate the symptoms somewhat.
Three months ago, I took it upon myself to do some additional research into nutrition, which I enjoyed doing as a worthwhile hobby (though with the corridor-vision of veganism preventing the serious consideration of information to the contrary). My first discovery, and indeed, an immense shock to me during this period of study was the revelation of the dangers of soy consumption. This was severely upsetting to me, as it formed a necessary component of my current diet. Eliminating that, I then discovered the negative consequences of grain consumption as well, and suddenly, found myself immersed in the world of raw veganism.
This, I felt, was the true solution. I purchased no less than five books on the subject and lurked extensively on the Raw and Living Foods bulletin board. I even came across the waisays.com site during this time, but did not linger on it for very long due to its very nature as an ideally omnivorous lifestyle. The veganism, again, was restricting me. The tragedy of veganism, if I may editorialize for a bit, is that it is a dietary regime rooted in ideology, along moral/ethical/religious/‘spiritual’ grounds. For good or for ill, the universe we reside in is a physical one, within which Homo Sapiens evolved on Earth, consuming certain foods along the way. Few really appreciate the massive secondary implications of evolution (in this case, that humanity evolved eating certain foods which our physical bodies became accustomed to). The imposition of ethereal moral systems upon the entirely physical human leads to interesting conflicts, with dietary restriction being one of the most invidious. Indeed, civilization as a whole is an unnatural occurrence, upon close scrutiny, with the health of the individual lost in the desire to propagate. Evolutionary fitness for a species merely refers to their relative success rate at reproducing before dying—the actual health and wellbeing of the individual is irrelevant, what is key is that they have offspring. For a neat article on this subject, consider Jared Diamond’s article “The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race” (http://www.agron.iastate.edu/courses/ag ... stake.html).
Anyway… I embraced Raw Veganism, and experienced massive weightloss. The problem with Raw Veganism, as Tom Billings elegantly articulated, is purely an issue of securing enough calories. Fears of candida initially turned me away from utilizing fruits as a primary energy source, and indeed, I relied mostly on repugnant green juices. Tom Billings and beyondveg.com with their sound advice was a thorn in my side, as was this Nazariah fellow (http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/interv ... ariah.html), who seemed far too candid to ignore. I could not help but read the information therein, which, unlike many of the Raw Vegan gurus (unfortunately, the whole field is dominated by various strong personalities, with individuals like myself clustering around our respective senseis and becoming passionate devotees) was based on research and scholarship. The Raw Vegan books were woefully unfounded and ideological in character, and my faith in the movement was eroding rapidly. Please be aware that I am not trying to dissuade anyone from becoming a vegan—there are many reasons to do it other than for health, and indeed, believing in something (anything…) is beautiful. Again, living in a physical universe has many implications about things we take for granted, and it should be no surprise that there are many ‘pious’ vegetarians and vegans out there, as it is indeed something to believe in that you have control over.
Well, it became clear that veganism was not natural. I must stress this point—there are numerous reasons to become a vegan, but please reconsider your motivations. Even certain liberal-minded Raw Vegan gurus concede that B-12 supplementation is necessary (http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/articl ... udent.html). How can a natural diet require unnatural supplementation? Anyway, having studied physical anthropology, it was surprising that I had not discovered the Paleolithic diet earlier. Upon grasping the gist of this dietary system, I felt enlightened. I let my hair grow out, cultivated a beard, tossed out all of my shampoos and skin products, and reincorporated meat in the form of steamed turkey into my diet (turkey, after all, was full of ‘great’ protein). However, constantly nagging me again was this feeling that I was throwing out the baby with the bathwater—sure, veganism was flawed, but clearly there were many things right about it. And indeed, the sheer logic of raw foods was unavoidable—dogma was not necessary, raw made sense just using pure reason.
Then I came back to waisays.com for a closer look, and I tell you, it was a fitting reward to a good three months of cockamamie vegetable juicing and raw broccoli munching. Everyone, this is the key—waisays.com and the principles therein represent the perfect synthesis of Paleolithic nutrition with Raw foods. Under this system, both views are embraced and utilized, and the caloric question is solved elegantly. Furthermore, nothing is being sold on the waisays.com website—indeed, it would appear to this skeptic and cynic that the entire affair Waisays is purely benevolently motivated, with RRM refusing a money offer in one message post, and the entire book made available to the public at no cost. Indeed, replete within the site, the book, and Wai/RRMs knowledge is cited sources, nutritional data, and outside information. You need to take nothing on faith here, as the oft-mentioned nutrient calculator so poignantly exemplifies. Indeed, Wai and RRM, for no personal gain of their own, have spent much time answering message board posts and offering information, trying to steward a small board community into nutritional well-being.
So, I started with the sample diet, replicated utterly to the gram amount (with a hell of a lot of chives, not knowing how much exactly to put on and believing that they had a crucial nutritional component). Eventually, I came across a terrific post on the old message board (“lost the craving”) that simplified the diet greatly. I am aware and appreciative of Wai and RRM not wanting to reveal too much what they themselves consume exactly, lest they become too ‘central’ in the knowledge they disseminate. Nevertheless it was very helpful for me to see how RRM eats, as I am very sensitive to acne-causing foods (like him) and desire to gain muscle weight, having been left rather emaciated from non-Wai raw regimes. As of now I have indeed gained weight under this current diet:

Valencia Juice Oranges (Freshly juiced by hand) >1500ml (~12) Sip constantly with 50g oil/1500ml (11t)
Ripe Bananas 500g (~4) with 3t oil/125g (1.75t/banana)
Soft Dark Avocado 250g (~1)
Unfrozen Mackerel>Salmon>Maguro Fr-Su 67g at night
Fresh Egg Yolk (Gold Circle) Mo-Th 80g (~4) at night
Extra Virgin Cold Pressed Olive Oil (Bariani)>18t 2g carbohydrate for every 1g fat overall

I am quite proud of my excel sheet, as it represents countless hours of research over the past few months. I am not particularly physically active, and so I do not include sugar in my juice, but I recognize its utility were I more active. Juicing really is the key—I was reluctant to do it at first, lest I compromise the evolutionary method of consuming the fruits whole, but again, otherwise the calorie shortage issue would rear its ugly head. Combining juice with oil really does do the trick, and I feel vital in a way I have never before. My acne has certainly diminished significantly over the past month I have been on variations of this diet, and having eliminated the nuts, I expect that it will vanish entirely. While I did experience the red sandy bumps that many wrote about, they appear to have been the result of the nuts, and I look forward to their disappearance.
In conclusion, everything about the waisays.com site, message boards, and demeanor of Wai and RRM, to me at least, smacks of sincerity, benevolence, and well-researched knowledge. There were no leaps of faith here, no suspension of disbelief—everything really is spelled out on the boards and in the book. Essentially, I want to express my sincere gratitude to you, RRM, and through you to Wai. It is really fortunate for me that I did not come across this second board in the future when it may too be dead, not ever being able to thank the two of you for the service you have rendered me. I really cannot stress enough what a relief it was to unify Raw and Paleolithic principle, and put to rest my frenzied search for dietary perfection (a fools errand I realize, but I am still young and somewhat idealistic). Having just turned 20, I am all the more fortunate that I came across this information while relatively young, and thus have all the more years ahead of me to benefit from the knowledge. Furthermore, I am now more aware than ever about proper exercising techniques, an entirely unanticipated secondary boon (I know this sounds like a panegyric, but I assure all you members and lurkers that I am an independent and unaffiliated entity). Anyway, thank you sincerely, RRM and Wai. I am happy that you are still around to be thanked, and hope that you two are content. I will do by best to disseminate your research further, and hope that this excessively lengthy post may have been illuminating to some of you fellow lurkers our there.
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Oscar
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Re: My Story

Post by Oscar »

Wow, what a post! :)

First of all, welcome on the forum. :)

I took the liberty of changing the url's in your post into actual links, so people can directly click on them. I will certainly read those articles you mention. So far I totally agree with what you're saying.

Great to read your story, and I hope you will continue to lurk here, and maybe un-lurk more often to post something. ;)
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RRM
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Re: My Story

Post by RRM »

Wow... thank you!!!
anders.ohrn
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Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005 01:01
Location: Sweden

Re: My Story

Post by anders.ohrn »

What a great post! The story you tell, ATK, is very similar to how I stumbled across the Wai diet - interesting!

I have some questions for you, if you don't mind:

- Why do you want to eliminate nuts from your diet?

- Do you have any problems digesting oils in your fruit juices? According to many people, sugars and fats should not be consumed at the same time - however, I am personally questioning this principle more and more.

Peace
Anders
anders.ohrn
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005 01:01
Location: Sweden

Re: My Story

Post by anders.ohrn »

... One more thing - how do you consume the egg yolks? Do you blend them with fruits?
ATK
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:01

Re: My Story

Post by ATK »

Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
... One more thing - how do you consume the egg yolks? Do you blend them with fruits?
Dear Anders,

I am currently experimenting with eliminating nuts from my diet because I experienced the 'sandy red bumps' that some people on variations of this diet have also developed. Having read on the old board that some members were able to remedy this condition by eliminating the brazil nuts, I have done so, and must say that I have indeed had a decrease in their number. To compensate for the loss of protein eliminating the brazil nuts resulted in, I simply increased my consumption of raw egg yolk and raw fish. Indeed, on the old board various discussion topics made it fairly clear that, if one is currently consuming animal protein, the brazil nuts are unnecessary, though they do indeed make the diet more perfect with their inclusion by supplying the amino acids deficient in fruits. Having no compunction (any longer) about consuming eggs, I use them as my main source of protein.
I also found that eliminating the tomato, cucumber and chives alleviated many of the sandy red bumps. I would attribute this to the fact that I am no longer consuming any seeds whatsoever—when I made the vegetable salad I would always deseed the cucumber, but I would always ingest tomato seeds despite my intentions. Seeds, of course, have evolved to thwart digestion via antinutrients, and excluding them has had a visible effect on my complexion (no exaggeration). As for the chives—they are to add flavor, of course, which I do not really prioritize. Same regarding munch food. Again, I am partial to highly restrictive diets, but that very much so depends on the individual. I suspect that the Brazil Nuts were given great prominence on waisays.com for the very reason that they allow vegan variants of this diet to be pursued, with 70 grams of brazil nuts consumed daily (rather than 60 grams of egg yolk/50 grams of fish) in order to secure enough clean protein.
While this allows vegans to investigate and utilize this diet, it seems to me, from my interpretation of all that I have read, that if one is currently consuming animal food without grievance, the brazil nuts can be eliminated without consequence. After all, chicken egg yolk is the MOST nutritious of the proteinaceous foods, so you will not be missing anything by excluding the brazil nuts (indeed, if anything you will profit from the reduced risk of improperly dried nuts, aflatoxins, the risk of consuming rancid nuts, and excessive levels of selenium/radium [though this last risk is most likely nonexistent]). I am fortunate enough to live right next to a fantastic bulk grocery store that stocked high quality unshelled brazil nuts, but I know that this will not always be the case in my life, and wanted to make sure I crafted a diet for myself that could endure regardless of where I am located. Brazil nuts are relatively uncommon, and indeed, for me proved to be a lingering cause of acne.
Regarding the sashimi, my opinions are truly mixed. The same bulk store that I go to happens to have unfrozen maguro, along with some salmon and mackerel variants. From my interpretation, it seems that (of the acceptable raw fish) mackerel is the most laden in nutrients, followed by salmon and then tuna. However, further investigation reveals that mackerel only can really last for two days in the refrigerator on ice (with salmon and tuna lasting for around three) and may provoke reactions in people due to amines. Salmon very likely comes from a hatchery, and both salmon and mackerel do have a (negligible) risk of parasites, all the moreso if they are from a hatchery. Indeed, salmon sashimi (sake) was not a traditional Japanese foodstuff, and only became widely consumed after the arrival of refrigeration (the source text of this is “Raw salmon meat may contain anisakidae, marine parasites that cause Anisakiasis. Before the availability of refrigeration, Japanese did not consume raw salmon. Salmon and salmon roes were not used to make sashimi (raw fish) and sushi until recently” and can be found at this article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon. Of course, this is predicated on you trusting Wikipedia as a viable source of information—a more contentious issue, as they recently received negative press for an erroneous article on the JFK assassination).
I had always consumed the maguro due to the nonexistence of parasitic contamination, its availability, and the well-established history behind its consumption. However, a part of me always wants to eliminate it and replace it fully with eggs, a debate that I am still struggling with. Here are the pros and cons of this:
Pro: The mercury consumption inherent in eating all fish (especially large carnivorous fish like tuna) will no longer be an issue. Also, the risk of amines and dirty protein from fish (which will inevitably emerge just due to it being handled and aging over the time from when it is caught in the ocean to being consumed, even if unfrozen) will be eliminated entirely. Furthermore, replacing the fish entirely with eggs will reduce the costs of the diet.
Con: If fish is eliminated, another satisfactory source of vitamin B3 and omega 3 fatty acids must be found, which indeed is the whole point of consuming the fish in this diet (as I understand). Egg yolk in general is more nutritious than fish, except when it comes to B3 and omega 3 fatty acids. However, by purchasing DHA or Omega-3 enriched eggs, this latter issue can be addressed. The vitamin B3 is another issue, which can be dealt with through a variety of ways, but must ultimately be reconciled if you are to eliminate fish. One method is to increase the amount of avocado and orange juice being consumed, but in my case, I am not physically active enough to warrant the additional calories (I am 5’11’ and about 150 pounds). The fish, in this case, is more ‘nutritionally dense’ regarding B3 than increasing orange juice and avocado for me, and while I could increase the amount of fruits consumed to cover the deficit should the fish be eliminated, I would also ingest more calories, which would be an anathema at the moment. Clearly, the solution is to be more physically active, thus making the more calories welcome, and indeed I am working on that.
I am currently exploring options to eliminate the fish, because again, my desire is to craft a diet that is sustainable in the long run, able to endure into a time when I am not living next to this fabulous store. However, in my case, there is an additional problem—why do I really want to eliminate the fish? Clearly, the old vegetarian/vegan preoccupation is manifesting itself in this desire, and indeed it may be therapeutic for me to just eat the damn fish regardless of its ‘nutritional efficiency’ just to ground myself in physical, evolutionary reality. I mean, for me, is the issue really the mercury (which is surely not as big a threat as is the current fashion in the media) or minute amounts of dirty protein, or is it just old habits dying hard?
Well, I must say that I, like Sanna on the old message board, am keen to simplify things as much as possible. I like the idea of eating only eggs because there is no connective tissue/bulk to the yolk—it is this nice liquid matrix, and seems more easily absorbed than the solid, fibrous meat. Clearly I am going overboard here, but I do like the idea of making digestion as efficient as possible, and shrinking the volume of the stomach. While I find both fish and eggs to be tasty, I must say that raw egg yolk is truly delicious for me. I usually eat them alone in the evenings all at once (about four within my current diet incarnation). I do not combine them with any fruits due to the desire to have as many meals as possible during the day, and to make the size of my meals as small as possible. I simply check their freshness by doing the float test in a jar full of water, then cracking them on the rim of the jar, tossing the contents of the egg between the two shell halves until the yolk is separated from the albumen (which I dump into the water), slurp the yolk up, spit the bag into the water, and repeat until they are all consumed. I then flush the contents of the jar down the toilet (which seems the best option, though apparently can cause problems in sewage treatment) and rinse it well, to repeat the next night. I really love the taste of the yolks, and indeed, was not apprehensive about bacteria in the slightest. By now, I have certainly consumed over 150 raw eggs without incident. Even Dr. Mercola is a fan of the stuff (consider the various articles here: Do a search on www.mercola.com for raw eggs), though he finds fish consumption in any form to be ill advised (Do a search on www.mercola.com for fish and mercury).
Again, it depends on your sources and the confidence you place therein. For me, if Wai and RRM, who have certainly done more research on nutrition than I have (and indeed in RRMs case have even more stringent requirements on dietary than purity than I) are able to justify the regular consumption of fish while obviously being aware of the mercury issue, then the benefits of fish consumption still outweigh the negative. Yes, there is mercury in it. You are going to have to reconcile this truth with what you want for your health when eating the fish. Try not to look at the issue as eliminating every single toxin in your foodstuffs, as NO SINGLE FOOD IS PERFECT. Instead, try to be as aware as much as possible of the toxins within the food, and eat the foods with the toxins within that are most acceptable to your lifestyle. I mean, really, there are contradictory studies that link chronic Vitamin C overdosing to Parkinsons Disease, but considering I consume the juice of at least 12 oranges a day, I have accepted this risk. As Wai/RRM insightfully stated once, we need to eat something.
Anyway, I got a bit off topic, but no, I have no issues digesting juice and oil together. Indeed, I find that the oil makes the juice much more palatable, as the shock of its acid is much lower on my stomach when properly combined with oil. I cannot recommend juicing enough—yes, it is unnatural, and yes, I had issues reconciling it at first. Indeed, you could very well eat slices of whole fruit regularly with follow up bites from the vegetable salad, and be ‘more Paleolithic’ than I. It really is a personal preference for the convenience of the juices, coupled with a desire to eliminate useless fiber from my diet. Yes, the juice will be more oxidized than a whole orange, and thus less nutritious. Yes, I have read this article (http://www.mercola.com/2003/apr/12/fruit_juice.htm) However, you will be drinking so much orange juice that this will be of little consequence. Indeed, I was always opposed to making a salad that would last the entire day for this precise reason, that the various fruits exposed to air for long periods of time would oxidize throughout the day. I would always just eat the fruits one by one, monoeating, which the Raw Instincto ‘tribe’ swears by. We are really immersed in some interesting subcultures here.
THE POINT is, just be aware of the various consequences of what you eat, and do what you find most acceptable for your lifestyle.

Edit: the long search url's made the page layout look weird, so I edited those. Oscar. :)
anders.ohrn
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005 01:01
Location: Sweden

Re: My Story

Post by anders.ohrn »

ATK,

Thanks for another interesting post.

I used to be a vegan, but came to realize that the diet was not ideal for me, neither from a physical or psychological perspective. I do a lot of yoga and play a lot of squash, and experienced decreasing endurance the longer I was on the vegan diet. I am also the kind of person who has a hard time taking pills, no matter if they happen to be B12 supplements or painkillers.

In other words, stumbling across the Wai diet was a very pleasant suprise for me, and I had the same kind of "this is what I have been looking for" experience that you seem to have had. I used to have a big problem with the egg yolks, but recently I started to mix them into my homemade orange juice, and the result is just delicious.

I have some more questions for you - you seem to know what you are talking about. :)

- Do you use anything on your skin? Cleansers, oils, anything?

- Regarding the loss of omega 3 that follows from excluding fish from your diet; wouldn't a good way to get rid of this problem be to take 1-2 tablespoons of flax seed oil a day? Delicious to mix into orange juice, for instance. (I don't know which oil you are consuming today?)

- The connection between Brazil nuts and acne is certainly interesting. For a long time I have been wondering why so many people are allergic to nuts; people literally die from eating them, due to severe allergies. Could a food that is supposed to be natural and good to man really cause such severe allergies, to such a large part of the population? This has definitely made me question my own consumption of nuts - the only problem is that I am a "nut nut", simply because of their brilliant taste, so excluding them from my diet would definitely be a problem for me...
ATK
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:01

Re: My Story

Post by ATK »

Anders,
Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
- Do you use anything on your skin? Cleansers, oils, anything?
I currently apply nothing whatsoever. Three years ago I used a combination of non-prescription salicylic acid facial wash morning and night, the oral antibiotic minocycline (had earlier taken doxycycline) in the morning, a 2.5% benzoyl-peroxide topical solution in the morning, and Differin adapalene topical gel at night. Quite a coctail—a dermatologist offered to prescribe me Accutane, but even then I knew enough never to get on that (I was at the time in a relationship with a former Accutane user who experienced severe depression while on it, and could not discourage me enough from taking it. Not sure what she was on then, however).
About two years ago I discontinued the prescription medication, using only salicylic acid and some VERY dubious herbal remedies. About six months later, I relied solely on a highly ineffective plant-based assortment of topical washes. I would say that was the nadir of my acne, as I was concurrently in the throws of a primarily grain, soy and vegetable-based veganism. About a year ago, unhappy with the poor state of my skin, I got a prescription for a topical antibiotic called Clindamyocin, which proved to be quite effective, and handily got rid of most of the acne. However, I have always had a deep aversion to antibiotics in any form, and about the time I discovered the Paleolithic crowd I discontinued it. As of right now, the only chemicals I really come into contact with are in the form of a baking soda, salt and prickly ash bark-based tooth powder. I don’t use shampoo, cleaners, oils, cucumber juice, rose water, etc. What I DO use, and recommend, is a body brush, which feels great right before a shower.
In terms of skin quality, I would say that the best it has ever looked was the period of time right before I became a vegetarian over two years ago. At that point, I was going to the gym regularly, eating meat, and on an impressive cocktail of antibiotics and assorted nostrums. With that in mind, I do not recommend following that route, as taking antibiotics is a very serious affair, and I do regret it. Currently, I am very satisfied with the appearance of my skin, which is almost entirely unmarred save for a few lingering ‘red sandy bumps’, which I expect will eventually fade away. This is quite amazing, as again I am using no appliqués. Fortunately, I do not have much in the way of scarring, as I never developed cystic acne at any point. My skin is NOT perfect, but again, it has improved to such a significant degree that I cannot but conclude that my current diet is having a tremendous influence on it (as well on health in general, scar healing, hair growth, and vitality).
Regarding the elimination of chemical products, that is up to the individual. I personally do not use bleach or detergent for laundry, mouthwash when I brush my teeth, or aluminum-containing deodorants. It is still important to brush ones teeth, I would imagine, but I can attest that I have never had a cavity nor a filling, and my teeth are in excellent condition. Use only ripe fruits! I also only use glass bottles to store juice in—the ‘Ball’ brand ones with a screw top lid. I used to use Nalgene bottles, but read some unpleasant things about them (http://www.mercola.com/2004/apr/7/nalgene_water.htm).
Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
- Regarding the loss of omega 3 that follows from excluding fish from your diet; wouldn't a good way to get rid of this problem be to take 1-2 tablespoons of flax seed oil a day? Delicious to mix into orange juice, for instance. (I don't know which oil you are consuming today?)
An interesting point about the flax seed oil, which was another odyssey of mine in itself. For about two years I put a tablespoon of Barleans brand Flax Seed Oil in my cereal daily. Then I came across a disturbing article which mentioned that pre-pressed Flax Seed oil oxidized extremely rapidly, and that the best thing to do is to grind your own flax seeds in a coffee grinder and then soak them for about a half hour prior to consumption (which formed this massive gelatinous mass that I would then slurp down, and which incidentally is a terrific substitute for eggs when doing vegan cooking). That was about three months ago.
Then, I came across another disturbing article linking flaxseed consumption to prostate cancer (http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/21/flax_seed_oil.htm). Take that as you will, but this was coupled with the fact that, ultimately, flaxseeds do not supply you with the crucial omega 3 fatty acids—in reality, they supply you with a precursor that your body needs to convert into the genuine article, and while this is pretty much the best a vegan can do, the obvious improvement was to supplement with fish oil/cod liver oil, which I began doing about two months ago. Keep in mind also that the flax seeds are exactly that, seeds, which by their very nature have evolved to remain undigested, and the nutrients therein, inaccessible.
So! Started taking the fish oil, which was fine, and indeed, appears to be pretty good for you, as it supplies genuine omega 3s and is filtered for heavy metals such as mercury. I discontinued the use of this upon arriving a waisays.com, however, for a number of reasons. The first is that fish, and not fish oil, is included on the waisays.com diet. If you elect to eat fish, the omega 3 issue is solved already. If you do not, you can eat enriched eggs, and while this is not perfect, it is certainly a whole food, as opposed to a potentially highly refined oil. Indeed, my main turnoff about the fish oil was this it was refined, and included various chemicals to give it a pleasant lemony taste and preserve the oil from oxidizing. Minute, no doubt, but keep in mind my preoccupation here. Indeed, I wanted to do the sample diet as it is intended: no outside foods, stick only to the sample diet! Fish oil is certainly not a part of it, and indeed, the only oil I currently use is Barlean’s Extra Virgin Cold Pressed Olive Oil.
While waisays.com reveals that even fruits contain omega 3s, whole fish meat seems like the most natural/best way to get those fatty acids. Hence, I eat the fish some days of the week, and if I stop, will rely entirely on enriched eggs, in addition to the omega 3s in fruits. What do I recommend for you? Certainly not premade flaxseed oil, which goes rancid very quickly, despite elaborate bottles and refrigeration. At the least, grind your own golden flaxseeds in a coffee grinder and then mix them in a liquid for about 20 minutes, letting them become gooey. I still discourage this because of the very nature of the seed, and potential prostate cancer risks. The best solution outside of Waisays teaching is to use Fish Oil in the Spring and Summer and Cod Liver Oil in the Fall and Winter (due to the higher Vitamin D content of the Cod Liver Oul), as you will get both DHA and EPA. If you fully embrace the sample diet regulations, which I currently am doing, then eat the whole fish or enriched eggs.
Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
- The connection between Brazil nuts and acne is certainly interesting. For a long time I have been wondering why so many people are allergic to nuts; people literally die from eating them, due to severe allergies. Could a food that is supposed to be natural and good to man really cause such severe allergies, to such a large part of the population? This has definitely made me question my own consumption of nuts - the only problem is that I am a "nut nut", simply because of their brilliant taste, so excluding them from my diet would definitely be a problem for me...
There is no question that they are tasty and satisfying, and if your skin can tolerate them, go for it. For myself, they did not work out, but we are all different.
ATK
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:01

Re: My Story

Post by ATK »

Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
ATK,
-I do a lot of yoga and play a lot of squash, and experienced decreasing endurance the longer I was on the vegan diet.
I myself enjoy yoga as well, and Taijiquan in the mornings (both of which fit into the Wai/RRM recommendations of exercise limited to a lot of walking, stretching and controlled weight lifting), and certainly have gotten a lot more out of the two ever since refining my diet.
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Oscar
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Re: My Story

Post by Oscar »

Actually the use of toothpaste has, until now, never been proven beneficial in any way. Probably with this diet, abrasive toothpaste could even be more damaging, because the continuous eating and drinking will leave the outer layer of enamel soft (until it remineralizes during the night). Therefore I choose to brush my teeth without anything.
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RRM
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Re: My Story

Post by RRM »

ATK,

Once again, thank you very much for posting here.
ATK
I suspect that the Brazil Nuts were given great prominence on waisays.com for the very reason that they allow vegan variants of this diet to be pursued, with 70 grams of brazil nuts consumed daily (rather than 60 grams of egg yolk/50 grams of fish) in order to secure enough clean protein.
Exactly!
While this allows vegans to investigate and utilize this diet, it seems to me, from my interpretation of all that I have read, that if one is currently consuming animal food without grievance, the brazil nuts can be eliminated without consequence.
Yes, indeed.
And its indeed also very much true that we all are individually very different; for some acne-prones its essential to eliminate nuts from their diet, even though that I'm extremely susceptible to acne, and I can eat macadamia nuts and Brazil nuts very well without breaking out.

Regarding the fish versus egg yolks; to me it seems that alternating yolks with fish provides us with the best balance of nutrients. And if you worry about mercury, simply increase the intake of yolks and decrease the intake of fish.
Personally, I feel that they are both so absolutely delicious that I can't stand the thought of having to do without one of them. Actually, I'm a little sad that the mackerel season is over now here, because the taste of full-fat fresh raw mackerel, melting on your tongue, is utter extacy.
ATK
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Re: My Story

Post by ATK »

Today I did some more research the fish subject, and agree that fish should be rotated with the egg yolks to get the most out of this diet. While I would have liked to fully replace the fish with the yolks, I must conclude that doing so is not motivated out of an interest to secure maximum nutrition, but rather out of lingering vegetarian sympathies and desires to excessively simplify what I eat.
Consider the following website: http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=healthalerts .
This appears to be a useful resource, as it summarizes the mercury issue fairly concisely. Using the data from that website, I have refined my earlier statement of Mackerel>Salmon>Maguro into the following one:

Unfrozen Atlantic (not King or Spanish) Mackerel > Arctic Char, Chum, Coho, Pink, Chinook, Sockeye (not Atlanitc) Salmon > Skipjack (not Albacore, Bigeye, Bluefin, Yellowfin) Tuna.

Essentially, while I maintain that mackerel appears to be the most nutritious fish of the three that are advocated on waisays.com, this statement now only holds true Atlantic mackerel, and not King or Spanish mackerel, due to the fact that the latter appear to be too excessively contaminated with heavy metals to warrant consumption as frequently as the diet advocates. Regardless, all three of the supported fish have certain subspecies that are perfectly fine regarding mercury consumption levels. Ultimately, it falls to the individual consumer to fully identify which particular subspecies of the fish he or she is purchasing, in addition to ensuring it is unfrozen and free of parasites (in the case of the mackerel and salmon). That would be my recommendation, at least, from what I have researched--ultimately, it is about doing what you feel most comfortable with. As for myself, I will most likely switch from the maguro (which is indeed bluefin, yellowfin or bigeye) to mackerel.
One issue that still remains to be investigated is whether skipjack tuna is still safe to consume raw, as tuna sashimi directly implies that the tuna used is bluefin, yellowfin or bigeye. At least in the case of the mackerel, Atlantic mackerel (also called Boston mackerel) IS in fact the type used in mackerel sashimi (http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/health ... ckerel.htm). Again, it is up to the individual participants in the diet to decide what is best for them.
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Re: My Story

Post by ATK »

Fortunately, it appears that Skipjack tuna has a history of raw consumption in the form of 'Takami' sashimi (http://www.globefish.org/index.php?id=2 ... 1884656887). The same is also true for the Alaskan varieties of Salmon (the ones enumerated as being ok), as opposed to just the Atlantic ones. So, this means that there are varieties of each of the three favored fish that are perfectly edible raw AND contain very low levels of mercury. This may eliminate much of the controversy over the consumption of the raw fish from the mercury standpoint--parasites and issues of freshness are another issue :D .
Also, a point of clarification: in my third post on this thread, I said that the only oil I consume is Barlean’s Extra Virgin Cold Pressed Olive Oil. What I meant to say was Bariani, rather than Barleans.
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Re: My Story

Post by ATK »

I apologize for the repeated posts, but I was wrong about the name of skipjack sashimi. More commonly, it is referred to as 'Bonito' or 'katsuo' (http://www.inet-shibata.or.jp/~ytoshi/j ... shimi5.htm), so these names may yield better results if looking for it in a Japanese restaurant.
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Re: My Story

Post by Monique »

great info!
thx :cool:

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