Sushi grade fish - flash frozen

[BlueFrog]

Sushi grade fish is at least flash frozen per the FDA's recommendation.

[sula58]

Hey Blue Frog, quick question: I thought "sushi grade" means just really fresh fish, or? Or does it really mean frozen (b/c people think it'll be less "dangerous" that way, if consumed raw)? Just wondering, thanks!

[BlueFrog]

Sushi grade or Sashimi grade means "intended for raw consumption" and that usually means frozen.

Here's a sample page from the FDA website: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/haccp4e.html

Some of the relevant lines are:

A recent survey of U.S. gastroenterologists has confirmed that seafood-borne parasitic infections occur in the U.S. with sufficient frequency to make preventive controls necessary during the processing of parasite-containing species of fish that are intended for raw consumption...[]..Freezing and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time), or freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours, or freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours is sufficient to kill parasites. FDA's Food Code recommends these freezing conditions to retailers who provide fish intended for raw consumption.

You may also want to check the list of fish considered a 'parasite risk' and therefore subject to this code. It includes mackerel, some salmon, and small tuna and several other common fish: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/haccp4c1.html Notice that a number of the fish have a (4) footnote saying that the recommendation doesn't apply to fish intended for cooked consumption.

[Brian]

Hi Bluefrog,

While I live in Canada and not the US, I can perhaps offer my experience on this subject of sushi-grade fish.

I have found that most places here offering sushi-grade fish (tuna, salmon, mackerel) do not freeze the fish despite the recommendation to do so by the Canadian equivalent of the FDA.

After talking to a number of retailers who have told me this, they added that the reason is that a large portion of their clients of sushi-grade fish highly preferred non-frozen fish.

The thing to remember is that it is a guideline recommendation and is thus often ignorned. I've found that to be even more so at places that have many asian clients.

Of course, there are still a good number of places that will (flash-)freeze sushi-grade fish.

In short: my experience is the opposite of yours. I notice most sushi-grade fish is not frozen, while some is.

P.S. I do live by the ocean and thus the culture here could be quite a bit different than inland.

[BlueFrog]

Isn't the fish already frozen just by virtue of being in the cold climes of Canada? , just teasing.

You do bring up a good point though. There are definately regional differences. Canada is rich in rivers, lakes, and estuaries in addition to having a large coastline. So I'm not surprised to hear that you can find fresh fish easily and reasonably priced there. It's what I've heard from others as well. But, unfortunately this is not the norm in the US. Actually, don't take my word for it. Here's a NY Times article from last year. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 94DC404482
They even say that freezing is recquired, not just recommended, which I've heard as well, but only seen the term 'recommended' on the FDA site.

[BlueFrog]

Actually...here's the whole article for free: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyreg ... r=USERLAND
I think it's a good read for anyone consuming "raw" fish.

P.S. - Brian, I get the only admins can edit messages note as well when I try to edit.

[sula58]

Thanks for the article!!
When my grocer was cutting my salmon for me, I mentioned that I was going to eat it raw. He stopped what he was doing, very concerned, and gave me a long speech about how he didn't "feel comfortable" giving me fish that wasn't sushi-grade (for eating raw). He even gave me names of other places in the area that had sushi-grade fish.

[Brian]

Hi Bluefrog,

Don't worry, I'm not doubting you, just sharing my experience. A part of my heart breaks to hear that in many places in the US it is hard to obtain fresh fish.

I should add that it's extremely hard to find a restaurant that will serve raw non-frozen fish in my city. Apparantly they think there is a regulation that says they may not serve it in a restaurant if it hasn't been frozen. I can't confirm that because I have read the relevant regulations.

P.S. Har har, yes the igloos here are very cold. In reality I actually live south of the 49th parallel (that is, the continental US-Canada border.

P.P.S. Sorry about the edit function... if Wai/RRM want I think there is an option to allow users to edit their posts in the control panel. That is, Wai/RRM would have to make that administrative change.

[unorthoughdocks]

In the USA the fishman in a fish market comfirmed to me that it is the law and they do follow it to freeze SASHIMI GRADE fish but not some lower grade fresh fish such as "regular grade" tuna
i dont know about salmon
most sushi bars definitely do ive had some bad experience with this cause they lie about the frozen

[RRM]

Here's that FDA regulation:
www.13.waisays.com/FDA.htm

Restaurants however, don't fall under the FDA jurisdiction; check out this email from the FDA:
www.13.waisays.com/FDA-juris.htm

[BlueFrog]

Restaurants however, don't fall under the FDA jurisdiction; check out this email from the FDA:
www.13.waisays.com/FDA-juris.htm

Whose jurisdiction do they fall under (OSHA?) and what do they say about it? Restaurants are subject to health codes and food handling regulations.

[RRM]

Whose jurisdiction do they fall under (OSHA?) and what do they say about it?

Good questions that I don't know the answer to; I'm not familiar with the safety regulations for sushi restaurants in the US.

Restaurants are subject to health codes and food handling regulations.

We may assume that these regulations are less restrictive because in restaurants the food is always handled by trained professionals.

[BlueFrog]

Good point. That's probably true.

[RRM]

One thing with frozen fish is that its harder to tell its 'freshness' / 'bacterial condition'.
Also it doesnt nearly taste as good as fresh raw fish (watery, tasteless).

[sabie]

I'm going to go around to a variety of places tomorrow after work after make sure I have a few non frozen fish to choose from. I can get Ahi tuna right now. I will say this though, that salmon I had last night was soooo yummy, I didn't even break down (not on the sample) and have a piece of ginger though I love it, the fish was so good. I had to force myself to toss one piece as I was afraid to eat so much at one time on only my second fish encounter. Everyone here is so paranoid about fish, our hatcheries are at war with the fisherman. As always, your reply is much appreciated. Sabie