Energy and excercise; orange juice, oil, honey mix

[halfgaar]

Hi,

I've been on Wai for about 2.5 months, and while I'm not sure it's because of theWai diet, it seems that I have less energy during my wushu (kung fu) training. I've read several forum topics on the matter, and I think I need to make some kind of orange juice drink for energy. The strange thing is that, today, I had a glass of orange juice, mixed with olive oil and honey, twice (in the afternoon and a short time before training, in the early evening) and still I didn't have that much energy. The lack of energy is not something I notice in "normal" life, but I'm open to the possibility that my current diet causes a possible lack of energy during wushu training.

I'm going to experiment with the orange juice, olive oil and honey mix for energy. My question is, what would be a good ratio? 1:1 OJ and oil and a few table spoons of honey (I prefer honey to processed sugar)?

[CY]

A 1:1 ratio of oil to orange juice? That sounds just a little bit off . I've never done this, but I thought people only added a few tablespoons of olive oil to a glass of juice..

For how long have you noticed that slight lack of energy? Did you practice wushu when starting on Wai? Also, exactly how long before training do you drink the joil (= juice + oil, eh? no? fine...)? One more: if you're drinking a mixture right now, what ratio are you using? (1:1 is just a little bit intimidating)

I would suggest that you bottle a mixture of the juice/oil/honey and drink portions at regular intervals throughout the day, rather than just before training and in the evening. This should maintain blood sugar and energy levels so that you're already set before training (and any other situation that may occur). Because the drink contains oil, the energy is absorbed slowly, and by drinking it too closely to your wushu session, you may still be in the process of digesting and absorbing the joil (hehe) for energy. However, if your energy levels are maintained throughout the day, you should be set for the session.

If you find that you still do not have enough energy while practicing wushu, I suggest reducing the amount of oil you add to the juice that you drink before the session, so the sugar from the juice is absorbed more quickly, providing you with expendable energy at a higher rate. Do this only before your session though.

[halfgaar]

Two or three weeks after I started Wai, I got sick (flu (not just a cold), my parents got it too). Before that, I never felt low on energy. Afterwards, it's been going up and down a bit, but it appears that I don't have the energy I used to.

Perhaps the low energy is also due to that flu, but that's been two months now, so I doubt it...

I've been practicing wushu for 4 years (man, time flies), so it really appears to be something recent.

I don't regularly drink a mixture right now, but when I do, it's about 5:1 OJ:oil, I think. Recently, I noticed that I was good for an entire day (without too much exercise), energy wise, with just half a liter of this mixture. So it does appear to work.

BTW, are those 4 yolks and some red meat occasionally enough for muscle gain? I don't eat fish, can't really stand it...

[CY]

Two or three weeks after I started Wai, I got sick (flu (not just a cold), my parents got it too). Before that, I never felt low on energy. Afterwards, it's been going up and down a bit, but it appears that I don't have the energy I used to.

Perhaps the low energy is also due to that flu, but that's been two months now, so I doubt it...

Two months should be more than enough time to recover...

Did you take any medication while sick?

I've been practicing wushu for 4 years (man, time flies), so it really appears to be something recent.

Lower energy may be the result of the switch to a raw food diet. Many that do report that their energy metabolism seems a little sluggish (also usually correlated with a slightly lower rate of thermogenesis), although oftentimes this is simply because they're consuming too few calories. Do you have an idea of how much you are eating each day?

I don't regularly drink a mixture right now, but when I do, it's about 5:1 OJ:oil, I think. Recently, I noticed that I was good for an entire day (without too much exercise), energy wise, with just half a liter of this mixture. So it does appear to work.

If you notice that your energy levels do not go up, and you are concerned with energy needs, you may want to consider adding this mixture as a source of daily energy.

BTW, are those 4 yolks and some red meat occasionally enough for muscle gain? I don't eat fish, can't really stand it...

This does depend on the individual somewhat. On an all-fruit diet (+ nuts and seeds, no animal foods), I have managed to gain and maintain muscle volume and strength. The ability to do so is just as dependent on maintaining energy levels as it is consuming protein, if not more so. I would consider 4 yolks and the occasional meat more than enough protein to gain muscle, if, and only if, you are consuming enough energy throughout the day.

[halfgaar]

Did you take any medication while sick?

No, that's the last thing I would do...

Lower energy may be the result of the switch to a raw food diet. Many that do report that their energy metabolism seems a little sluggish (also usually correlated with a slightly lower rate of thermogenesis), although oftentimes this is simply because they're consuming too few calories.

When you say that it's caused by the switch to a raw food diet, you imply that it's a temporary thing. Did you mean that?

Do you have an idea of how much you are eating each day?

I've just entered a rough estimate in the nutrient calculator, and this is the output:

Code: Select all

RDA: FDA Men, 25-50yr (176cm/70in, 79kg/174lb)

Your selection:
[Item 1] 5units of Walnut (Juglans regia), [1][2],
[Item 2] 5units of Hazelnut, (Corylus spp.), [1][2],
[Item 3] 5units of Mandarin (Citrus reticulata), tangerine, [1],
[Item 4] 3units of Apple (Malus sylvestris), no skin, [1],
[Item 5] 2units of Orange (Citrus sinensis), no peel, Calif. navel, [1],
[Item 6] 10table spoons of Olive oil (Olea europea), [1],
[Item 7] 4units of Chicken egg yolk (Gallus domesticus), raw, [1],
[Item 8] 30g (grams) of Coconut meat (Cocos nucifera), [1][2],
[Item 9] 2table spoons of Honey, [1],
[Item 13] 0g (grams) of Cherry, sweet (Prunus avium), [1].

Weight:.................................1386.35g

Nutrients...............................Quantity..............RDA

Energy..................................2388.97kcal .....2900.00kcal  
Carbohydrate.............................180.85g ..............?g  
Fat......................................186.95g ..............?g  
Protein...................................22.49g ..........63.00g  
Water....................................990.19ml .............?ml  
Fiber.....................................28.49g ..............?g  

Vitamins
Vitamin A, RE (Retinol Equivalent).......841.02mcg ......1000.00mcg  
-Beta-carotene............................11.75mcg ............?mcg  no data:3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Vitamin B1, Thiamin........................1.03mg ..........1.50mg  
Vitamin B2, Riboflavin.....................0.72mg ..........1.70mg  
Vitamin B3, Niacin/Nicotinamide............2.58mg .........19.00mg  
Vitamin B5, Pantothenic acid...............4.59mg .............?mg  
Vitamin B6, Pyridoxine.....................1.11mg ..........2.00mg  
Vitamin B8, Biotin.........................0.00mcg ............?mcg  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Vitamin B9, Folic acid...................312.53mcg .......200.00mcg  
Vitamin B12................................2.06mcg .........2.00mcg  
Vitamin C, Ascorbic acid.................307.06mg .........60.00mg  
Vitamin D.................................98.27IU ........200.00IU  
Vitamin E.................................22.23mg .........10.00mg  no data:5
Vitamin K..................................0.62mcg ........80.00mcg  no data:3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13

Minerals and trace elements
Calcium, Ca..............................311.67mg ........800.00mg  
Iron, Fe...................................5.71mg .........10.00mg  
Magnesium, Mg............................149.74mg ........350.00mg  
Phosphorus, P............................573.42mg ........800.00mg  
Sodium, Na................................43.63mg .............?mg  
Potassium, K............................1919.67mg .............?mg  
Zinc, Zn...................................4.69mg .........15.00mg  
Iodide, I..................................1.07mcg .......150.00mcg  no data:3,4,5,6,7,9,13
Selenium, Se..............................37.84mcg ........70.00mcg  no data:5
 
Total sugar................................0.00g ..............?g  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Glucose....................................0.00g ..............?g  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Fructose...................................0.00g ..............?g  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Sucrose....................................0.00g ..............?g  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Lactose....................................0.00g ..............?g  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13
Starch.....................................0.00g ..............?g  no data:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,13

Fats
Fat, saturated............................35.56g ..............?g  
Fat, monounsaturated.....................114.20g ..............?g  
Fat, polyunsaturated......................25.05g ..............?g  

Omega-3 fatty acids
18:3 n-3, linolenic acid (LNA).............2.87g ..............?g  
20:5 n-3, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA)......0.00g ..............?g  
22:5 n-3, docosapentaenoic acid (DPA)......0.00g ..............?g  
22:6 n-3, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).......0.07g ..............?g  
 
Cholesterol..............................850.58mg .............?mg  

It would appear that I don't get enough calories. I will have to remedie that. First figure out the best way to do that. Even with 500 ml of orange juice, the added calories isn't that great. Changing the amount of olive oil has a lot of influence on the amount of calories, so perhaps I need to take in more of that.

Also, I've never been a proponent of refined sugar, but would it be a good to include that? It would be cheaper to make some sugar water, than it is to make a lot of orange juice. 500ml of orange juice takes about 5 or 6 organges...

I also appear to be getting a shortage of some other things; iodide (a quite severe shortage...), vitamin B12, some B vitamins. But, there are some thing not listed in the calculator, like red meat (cow) and coconut oil.

[halfgaar]

Hmm, the amount of iodide differs when I choose egg yolk [2] instead of [1]. What exactly is the difference? Also, I forgot to add banana's to my list, which contain it as well. But still, the 150 µg is not reached yet. This list says "odide ; Egg yolk, bananas and mango contain sufficient iodide." Does that mean that that list does not agree with the RDA values of the FDA?

[RRM]

Lower energy may be the result of the switch to a raw food diet. Many that do report that their energy metabolism seems a little sluggish (also usually correlated with a slightly lower rate of thermogenesis), although oftentimes this is simply because they're consuming too few calories.

When you say that it's caused by the switch to a raw food diet, you imply that it's a temporary thing. Did you mean that?

That depends on what you do.
If you manage to sufficiently increase your energy intake, then it will go away.

It would appear that I don't get enough calories. I will have to remedie that.

Then you automatically ingest more of other nutrients as well (including vitamins, minerals, trace elements)
Also, there is no need to focus on recommended amounts, as your body can perfectly increase the absorption rate if you food is low on iodide, for example.

I've never been a proponent of refined sugar, but would it be a good to include that?

If its a bit hard to ingest sufficient energy, yes, then it comes in handy.

It would be cheaper to make some sugar water,

Or add sugar (and a little oil) to the juice.

I also appear to be getting a shortage of some other things

No, it doesnt appear so.
The numbers given are 'safe levels'. Its not at all true that when you consume less, you ingest too little. not at all.
When you consume food that contains little vitamins, minerals (which is not true for people on this diet), your body will effectively compensate for that by increasing the absorption ratios and/or by increasing the production of vitamins partly made by the body (B2, B3 etc.)

Hmm, the amount of iodide differs when I choose egg yolk [2] instead of [1]. What exactly is the difference?

It differs per banana specie, and per single banana, and therefore also per source of data (1 or 2).
Thats the diference.

Also, I forgot to add banana's to my list, which contain it as well. But still, the 150 µg is not reached yet.

In some countries a range of 50 to 150 µg is recommended, so dont fixate on those numbers.

Does that mean that that list does not agree with the RDA values of the FDA?

The RDA are 'safe levels'; if everybody ingests that much of every nutrient, everybody is safe.
Naturally, things are more sophisticated.
For example, it has been found that people can easily survive on levels of B12 that are only a small fraction of the recommended levels (vegans).

[halfgaar]

Thanks for your response.

About the sugar. I've been told that refined sugar doesn't contain the necessary co-factors for processing it, and that it will get them from your other foods, meaning you could get a shortage. Better would be to take in something like molasses, which does contain those co-factors.

Anyway, I've been drinking orange juice daily, mixed in with some oil and honey, and it appears to give me more energy. I have training again this evening, but I only slept about 5 or 6 hours or so last night, so it wouldn't be a good empirical test...

[RRM]

I've been told that refined sugar doesn't contain the necessary co-factors for processing it

Like all energy, carbs require B-vitamins as co-enzymes for processing.
these B vitamins are provided by our food.

Better would be to take in something like molasses, which does contain those co-factors.

The level of coenzymes (vitamins) in these molasses is extremely low.
Food is far more effective.

[halfgaar]

But isn't it true that an apple, for example, contains all the coenzymes you need for it's digestion, and that refined sugar contains none, and there depletes your supply?

[RRM]

But isn't it true that an apple, for example, contains all the coenzymes you need for it's digestion, and that refined sugar contains none, and there depletes your supply?

Its true that an apple contains MORE than you need for its digestion.
If not, humans would only be able to survive if they ate their natural food always, all the time.
In fact, we need so little of these vitamins that we can survive eating only junk foods for years.
Yes, sugar contains none, but there is plenty in the rest of our food.
Dont forget that nowadays we live in luxury; we can eat as much natural foods as we want. In nature such luxury is extremely rare.

[Oscar]

In addition to RRM's response: depleting the coenzyme stock isn't a problem, because that is what it's used for. The only thing we need to do is to make sure the stock is sufficient for our daily needs. So if you would only eat sugar, then you would have a problem.

Looking at your nutrient calculator result, it looks as if you could do with a higher carb:fat ratio. The more physically active you are, the higher that ratio can be. The guideline ratio is 2:1 (you are at 1:1) but with your martial arts training (I know wu shu uses lots of acrobatic movements) you could easily go to 3 or even 4:1.

[halfgaar]

A higher ratio, so I need to take in more carbs (or less fat...)? I think I with my orange juice mixes, this has already been taken care of partly.

I may also try drinking some sugar water daily. If it gives me extra energy, then I'm all for it.