Fruits price? rice? B12? sugar? veggies?

[Rivera]

So spaghetti gluten-free has no opioid peptides at all? So not that bad finally?

Of course its bad. Its cooked and relatively high in protein.

If there are no opiod peptides, what would cause the cravings in this case? Beta-carbolines?
By the way, on a pure wai diet, how long before the cravings stop? How long before the body completely clear out what was causing them? I saw someone on the forum saying that after 3 months still she had some. Does it take so long?

It measures the effect of the consumed food on the insulin.
So, not before, but the total impact.
Again, the GI has no meaning at all.

What do you think about the glycemic charge?

But if both meals weigh 100gr exactly

Health is not about "what if",
but what you do.
You should eat according to your direct energy needs,
as that is what prevents insulin peaks.
Even if all your meals are 100 gram, you still dont know when to take them
to prevent those insulin peaks.

Yes, but my needs are 100 gr, so let's imagine I just eat spaghetti with nothing added, not fat, nothing. The portion containing more sugar will have more effect on the insulin? Even if both trigger insulin peaks, the one with more sugar should be the worst?
Soon, I will start to believe that 100gr of foods containing 10gr of sugars will have more effect on insulin than 100gr of foods containing 80gr of sugars.

When we pan fry the ckicken, it's inside oil, right? Or is there water added?

Some add water. It depends on what you do.

So for example, on this pic: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/200 ... k650.5.jpg
if there is only oil as liquid, when you dip one chicken inside, a big quantity of oil will be on it, right? How much it may represent in teaspoons? More than 10? That was what I was wondering.

both low in protein (little appetite enhancing)

But if there are proteins, there will be appetite enhancing anyway? After, I don't know if the results will be on cravings than with low proteins content, but still it's here at least. So the problem is not really resolved.
But for the sugar, the more there is, the more likely insulin response may be high (at least I guess, still waiting for confirmation about this )

If you simply add fat to a favorite munch food,
it does not make that munch food low in protein.
Hence it does not make that a good munch food.

Pasta/bread does have a lot of sugar. If I add fat, there will be a lot. About proteins, it seems that there are not so much (for you maybe it's a lot though). So it can be a good munch food too.

[RRM]

If there are no opiod peptides, what would cause the cravings in this case? Beta-carbolines?

Yes.

on a pure wai diet, how long before the cravings stop?

that differs per person,
and like an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic,
a cooked food junkie will always be a cooked food junkie.

How long before the body completely clear out what was causing them?

You will always be confronted with the smells of cooked foods,
playing at your addicted receptors.
And even just seeing cooked foods already triggers a response.

Does it take so long?

Sure.
And they will never completely disappear.

What do you think about the glycemic charge?

Thats what im talking about.
You can eat anything, as long as the meal is moderate enough.
(regarding energy including protein)

Yes, but my needs are 100 gr,

thats not true.
It depends on the energy left in your intestines, your blood and liver glycogen.

The portion containing more sugar will have more effect on the insulin?

Sure, but that is not bad.
Its bad when the insulin is triggered too much repeatedly.
there is nothing wrong with moderate triggering of insulin.
and a little more, but still moderate, is not worse.

Even if both trigger insulin peaks, the one with more sugar should be the worst?

No, it depends on whether its too much.

Soon, I will start to believe that 100gr of foods containing 10gr of sugars will have more effect on insulin than 100gr of foods containing 80gr of sugars.

Really?
Why is that?

on this pic: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/200 ... k650.5.jpg
if there is only oil as liquid, when you dip one chicken inside, a big quantity of oil will be on it, right? How much it may represent in teaspoons? More than 10? That was what I was wondering.

No, the chicken will be fried in the oil,
but it will not absorb that much of the oil.
Certainly less than 10 teaspoons. Maybe 2.

But if there are proteins, there will be appetite enhancing anyway?

the less protein, the less beta-carbolines, the less cravings.

After, I don't know if the results will be on cravings than with low proteins content, but still it's here at least. So the problem is not really resolved.

The "problem" is cravings.
Fat helps to fight them, cooked protein does the opposite.

But for the sugar, the more there is, the more likely insulin response may be high (at least I guess, still waiting for confirmation about this )

Insulin response is ESSENTIAL, for the uptake of amino acids in the brain
and muscles, and for the storing of glycogen.
Insulin secretion is NOT bad.
TOO MUCH insulin secretion on a daily basis is bad.

Pasta/bread does have a lot of sugar. If I add fat, there will be a lot. About proteins, it seems that there are not so much (for you maybe it's a lot though). So it can be a good munch food too.

If you combine it with avocado or cooked veggies and fat for example
it will still be the worst part of the munch food.
And when you use bread, you can only use one slice,
as described here (almost at the bottom of Ch. 54):
http://www.freeacnebook.com/54-55.htm

[Rivera]

Thats what im talking about.
You can eat anything, as long as the meal is moderate enough.
(regarding energy including protein)

"The insulin index shows how much insulin is present in people's blood as a result of a particular food"
So why we can't measure it with a simple blood test?

Yes, but my needs are 100 gr,

thats not true.
It depends on the energy left in your intestines, your blood and liver glycogen.

I mean when I eat a munch food, I try to limit the portion, I put limits to it. So, as it's always the same, I know how much I will eat.
Because when it's about munch food, I eat because of cravings, not needs (not "real" needs at least). And I know that a certain food will be enough in a given quantity. If I eat less, I won't feel satisfied. That's why I can say "my needs are".

The portion containing more sugar will have more effect on the insulin?

Sure, but that is not bad.
Its bad when the insulin is triggered too much repeatedly.
there is nothing wrong with moderate triggering of insulin.
and a little more, but still moderate, is not worse.

Yes but that's my problem. I need to eat everyday a munch food. And the portion may be a little too much. Like 180 gr of chocolate or 200 gr of pasta etc... If I just have this everyday (at one sitting), I can keep with the wai diet the rest of the time. But that much isn't too bad regarding insulin?

Soon, I will start to believe that 100gr of foods containing 10gr of sugars will have more effect on insulin than 100gr of foods containing 80gr of sugars.

Really?
Why is that?

Because I couldn't get an easy answer from you.

[RRM]

So why we can't measure it with a simple blood test?

You can, but its not that simple, partly because they must be elevated in context.
(food, activity, spare energy, stress)

I know how much I will eat.

then that 100 gram will not be too much,
if you are in need for energy at that moment.

I need to eat everyday a munch food. And the portion may be a little too much. Like 180 gr of chocolate or 200 gr of pasta etc... If I just have this everyday (at one sitting), I can keep with the wai diet the rest of the time. But that much isn't too bad regarding insulin?

Its better if you would split it in half.
Then you can have two munch food meals a day.

Because I couldn't get an easy answer from you.

Ha ha, okay.

[Rivera]

So why we can't measure it with a simple blood test?

You can, but its not that simple, partly because they must be elevated in context.
(food, activity, spare energy, stress)

What is the difference between this and euglycaemic insulin clamp? Both can differ too if you have more activity or stress etc...?

If you decide to do the blood test, it will just consist into a single blood test at a lab or by a doctor/nurse 30mn after eating the food you wanted to check?
If your activity is the same, condition the same, food intake the same, it will be very reliable though, right?

I know how much I will eat.

then that 100 gram will not be too much,
if you are in need for energy at that moment.

But it's munch food, so I may eat more than I need because of opiod peptides etc...

"While it's clear that the insulin demand exerted by foods is important for long-term health, it doesn't necessarily follow that we need an insulin index of foods instead of a glycemic index. When both have been tested together, the glycemic index is extremely good at predicting the food's insulin index. In other words, a low-GI food has a low insulin index value and a high-GI food has a high insulin index value. Furthermore, the level of glucose in the blood is directly related to adverse reactions such as protein glycosylation (linkages between glucose and protein) and oxidative molecules.
There are some instances, however, where a food has a low glycemic value but a high insulin index value. This applies to dairy foods and to some highly palatable energy-dense "indulgence foods." Some foods (such as meat, fish, and eggs) that contain no carbohydrate, just protein and fat (and essentially have a GI value of zero), still stimulate significant rises in blood insulin. "

true?

[RRM]

What is the difference between this and euglycaemic insulin clamp?

The euglycemic insulin clamp measures insulin sensitivity;
to what extend you may be insulin resistant.
Its a medical research technique, rarely used clinically.

If you decide to do the blood test, it will just consist into a single blood test at a lab or by a doctor/nurse 30mn after eating the food you wanted to check?
If your activity is the same, condition the same, food intake the same, it will be very reliable though, right?

Relatively reliable yes.
Though you cannot know how full your glycogen depots are,
whereas it makes a difference,
as the insulin response may be more prolonged when the glycogen depots are full.

Yes, but my needs are 100 gr

thats not true.
It depends on the energy left in your intestines, your blood and liver glycogen.

I know how much I will eat.

then that 100 gram will not be too much,
if you are in need for energy at that moment.

But it's munch food, so I may eat more than I need because of opiod peptides etc...

Whaaaaa!!
You said "i know how much i will eat", and its 100 gram...
So, IF you start eating that munchfood when you are in need for energy,
THEN it will never be too much.
Unless....
Unless you eat more than that,
of course............

true?

Please be more specific!
what part specifically?

"While it's clear that the insulin demand exerted by foods is important for long-term health, it doesn't necessarily follow that we need an insulin index of foods instead of a glycemic index. When both have been tested together, the glycemic index is extremely good at predicting the food's insulin index. In other words, a low-GI food has a low insulin index value and a high-GI food has a high insulin index value.

If the amount of food is set, yes.
In practice, you can eat anything, as long as your meal is small enough.

Some foods (such as meat, fish, and eggs) that contain no carbohydrate, just protein and fat (and essentially have a GI value of zero), still stimulate significant rises in blood insulin. "

Thats what im always saying.
Protein has (at least) equally strong effects on insulin secretion as glucose does.

[Rivera]

as the insulin response may be more prolonged when the glycogen depots are full.

How long after the meal I should do the test? I'm afraid the doctor/lab might propose a wrong time.

You said "i know how much i will eat", and its 100 gram...
So, IF you start eating that munchfood when you are in need for energy,
THEN it will never be too much.
Unless....
Unless you eat more than that,
of course............

It can be too munch because I eat for pleasure and cravings.
I don't overeat but I eat until my stomach's almost full. I just try to stop before for limit the cheating.

Thats what im always saying.
Protein has (at least) equally strong effects on insulin secretion as glucose does.

So eating salmon with fruit does not make it worse than just eating one fruit?


I found this article and some things are surprising, what do you think of the overall?:Click

It’s been known that meats and purine rich foods can raise uric acid, but it turns out that one of the most potent ways to raise uric acid is via fructose!

True?

How Much Fructose are You Consuming?
As a standard recommendation, I strongly advise keeping your TOTAL fructose consumption below 25 grams per day.

So no more than 4 fruits (like bananas) per day??

[RRM]

as the insulin response may be more prolonged when the glycogen depots are full.

How long after the meal I should do the test? I'm afraid the doctor/lab might propose a wrong time.

How long after the meal you do the test does not influence how full the glycogen depots were to being with.
Just follow the Dr's advice.

Thats what im always saying.
Protein has (at least) equally strong effects on insulin secretion as glucose does.

So eating salmon with fruit does not make it worse than just eating one fruit?

Eating 1 apple + 100 gram salmon
has a greater effect on insulin release than eating just 1 apple.
Its not worse, unless...
Unless you dont need the direct energy and your glycogen depots are full.

It’s been known that meats and purine rich foods can raise uric acid, but it turns out that one of the most potent ways to raise uric acid is via fructose!

True?

Fructose does influence the level, yes.

How Much Fructose are You Consuming?
As a standard recommendation, I strongly advise keeping your TOTAL fructose consumption below 25 grams per day.

So no more than 4 fruits (like bananas) per day??

No.
Just dont consume grains.
You dont need to be afraid of uric acid.
Our body can cope with it.

[thefourth]

How Much Fructose are You Consuming?
As a standard recommendation, I strongly advise keeping your TOTAL fructose consumption below 25 grams per day.

By standard recommendation, do you mean for everyone?

That seems difficult if so. (Especially consuming one L OJ)

[RRM]

By standard recommendation, do you mean for everyone?

That seems difficult if so. (Especially consuming one L OJ)

Yes, its nonsense.
You should just balance fructose with glucose,
which naturally is the case in fruits and sugar.
That statement was not mine,
it was from a link that Rivera posted.
(see his last post)

I found this article and some things are surprising, what do you think of the overall?:Click

....

How Much Fructose are You Consuming?
As a standard recommendation, I strongly advise keeping your TOTAL fructose consumption below 25 grams per day.

So no more than 4 fruits (like bananas) per day??

[Rivera]

Fruit has been given the green light in nutritional arenas: "eat as much fruit as you want; it's good for you". Fruits and vegetables are believed to promote good health and eliminate many diseases, even though we have not seen enough good clinical scientific evidence to support this."

True?

"Resistant starch is a type of starch which is slowly digested. Amylose (long chains of sugars joined together) takes longer to be broken down than starches made up of branches of sugars (amylopectins). "

True?

-Could you resume me why we don't need (or why we should not eat) too much proteins? I just remember that we need more of one vitamin B.

-I just want to make sure of something: in the nutrient calcultor, when for example, you choose bananas: 100gr, it's 100 gr of bananas without skin right ?

-I read somewhere that non-organic foods have pesticides, fungicides etc...; but organic food may have biotoxins and mycotoxins. Do you know more about this?
Pesticides/fungicides in foods don't give acne?

-I don't get the salt=hypertension. There is salt in everyfood, especially in sea foods, so why we never hear about this and the possibility of having hypertension from eating fish?
If we loose weight when reducing salt intake, what does it mean?

-Before you said that eating 1 apple + 100 gram salmon has a greater effect on insulin release than eating just 1 apple.
If instead of 100gr, it's just a teaspoon of avocado oil or olive oil, still it would have a greater effect on insulin than just an apple, or in this case it would reduce it?

[RRM]

even though we have not seen enough good clinical scientific evidence to support this."
True?

Yes.

"Resistant starch is a type of starch which is slowly digested. Amylose (long chains of sugars joined together) takes longer to be broken down than starches made up of branches of sugars (amylopectins). "
True?

Yes.

Could you resume me why we don't need (or why we should not eat) too much proteins?

Regarding raw protein, right?
Higher nitrogen (and ammonium, ureum) load and increased water retention (faster of aging of the skin)

I just want to make sure of something: in the nutrient calcultor, when for example, you choose bananas: 100gr, it's 100 gr of bananas without skin right ?

Yes.

I read somewhere that non-organic foods have pesticides, fungicides etc...; but organic food may have biotoxins and mycotoxins.

On the peel, yes.

Pesticides/fungicides in foods don't give acne?

Not that i know.
Simply peel all your fruits.

I don't get the salt=hypertension. There is salt in everyfood, especially in sea foods, so why we never hear about this and the possibility of having hypertension from eating fish?

Regarding this diet its not about avoiding hypertension,
but about a much more mild (and not dangerous) version of it.
Hypertension is more like a disorder, whereas moderate water retention
is completely harmless regarding your health.

If we loose weight when reducing salt intake, what does it mean?

Less water retention.

Before you said that eating 1 apple + 100 gram salmon has a greater effect on insulin release than eating just 1 apple.
If instead of 100gr, it's just a teaspoon of avocado oil or olive oil, still it would have a greater effect on insulin than just an apple, or in this case it would reduce it?

In all cases, its harmless.
But no there is no additional (nor reducing) effect of the oil on your insulin.

[Rivera]

Regarding raw protein, right?
Higher nitrogen (and ammonium, ureum) load and increased water retention (faster of aging of the skin)

How nigher nitrogen, ammonium and ureum are bad regarding health?

Regarding this diet its not about avoiding hypertension,
but about a much more mild (and not dangerous) version of it.
Hypertension is more like a disorder, whereas moderate water retention
is completely harmless regarding your health.

So do we need table (sea) salt in the wai diet or usual cooked diet? If there is salt in everyfood, we shouldn't need at all?

In all cases, its harmless.
But no there is no additional (nor reducing) effect of the oil on your insulin.

So adding fats does what exactly? I thought I read it stabilizes blood sugar?

[RRM]

nitrogen, ammonium and ureum are bad regarding health?

All nitrogen (from protein) that is not used for (re)constructive purposes, will be excreted eventually.
To be able do so, the nitrogen is converted into ammonium and ureum subsequently, which are mildly toxic.
The higher the nitrogen load, the more cells get damaged, accelerating aging of organs in general.
So, yes, a higher protein intake accelerates aging in general.

So do we need table (sea) salt in the wai diet or usual cooked diet?

No.

If there is salt in everyfood, we shouldn't need at all?

Exactly.

So adding fats does what exactly? I thought I read it stabilizes blood sugar?

Correct.
If you use both fatty acids and sugar for energy, this has a stabilizing effect on the blood glucose level.
Consuming oil with sugars, the utilization of fats for energy is stimulated,
compared to when only sugars are consumed.
Compare it to a car that runs on both oil and gas simultaneously, in comparison to one that runs on oil only.
In the latter car, the level of oil will fluctuate more than in the hybrid car.

[Kookaburra]

Compare it to a car that runs on both oil and gas simultaneously, in comparison to one that runs on oil only.
In the latter car, the level of oil will fluctuate more than in the hybrid car.

I don't think it is a fair comparison as a car is a non living thing.