raw honey instead of orange juice?

[fred]

Is-it wise to replace orange juice with raw honey ?
Orange juice makes me urinate too much and is quiet acidic for my tooth.
As long as I eat also olive/coconut oil, some fruits (especially bananas) and meat/fish/egg yolks.

[RRM]

No, its not so wise, as honey hardly contains any nutrients at all.
Its virtually the same as replacing OJ with sugar.

[panacea]

Use a straw, don't let it touch your teeth, and rinse with water.
My personal reccomendation is to look for "page mandarins", if you can't find them, look for clementines, both these 'oranges' have less acid than oranges like valencias, navel oranges, etc.

These questions seem to get asked a lot RRM, maybe everyone here should help out and make a huge FAQ thread, then Oscar can organize it, clean it up, and put it on waiworld official site?

[fred]

No, its not so wise, as honey hardly contains any nutrients at all.
Its virtually the same as replacing OJ with sugar.

Honey contains about 2% of minerals (calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, sodium and zinc), vitamins (B6, thiamin, niacin, riboflavin, pantothenic acid), pollen and protein. Provided that I eat other fruits, and also some orange juice (max 1L a day), will I really miss some important nutrients? Vitamin C? antioxidants?

[RRM]

Depending on what source you use, naturally
Nutrients in 100 g honey

(water 18.6%)
protein .............................0.38%
carbs .............................75.1% (33.9 g glucose, 38.8 g fructose, 2.4 g. sucrose)

sodium ............................7.4 mg
potassium .....................47 mg
magnesium..................... 5.5 mg
calcium ..........................4.5 mg
manganese ...................30 mcg
iron ................................1.3 mg
copper ..........................90 mcg
zinc ............................350 mcg
nickel ............................1.25 mcg
chromium ......................29 mcg
phosphorus.................... 18 mg
iodide ..............................0.5 mcg
boron ...........................350 mcg

vitamins
K ........................25 mcg
B1 ........................3 mcg
B2 ......................50 mcg
B3 ....................130 mcg
B5 ......................70 mcg
B6 ....................159 mcg
C......................... 2.4 mg

Water.........................................17.10000g
Energy......................................304.00000kcal .
Protein quality............................11.99%
Protein........................................0.30000g
-Methionine..................................0.00100g
-Cysteine.....................................0.00300g
Total lipid (Fat).............................0.00000g
Carbohydrate..............................82.40000g
Fiber, total dietary.........................0.20000g

Minerals, and trace elements
Calcium, Ca.................................6.00000mg
Iron, Fe........................................0.42000mg
Magnesium, Mg............................2.00000mg
Phosphorus, P.............................4.00000mg
Potassium, K..............................52.00000mg
Sodium, Na..................................4.00000mg
Zinc, Zn.......................................0.22000mg
Copper, Cu..................................0.03599mg
Manganese, Mn...........................0.08000mg
Selenium, Se...............................0.00080mg

Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid................0.50000mg
Vitamin B1, Thiamin.............................0.00000mg
Vitamin B2, Riboflavin..........................0.03800mg
Vitamin B3, Niacin, Nicotinamide...........0.12100mg
Vitamin B5, Pantothenic acid.................0.06800mg
Vitamin B6, Pyridoxine..........................0.02400mg .
Folate, total..........................................2.00000mcg
-Folate acid (Vitamin B9).......................0.00000 mcg
-Folate, food.........................................2.0000mcg
-Folate, DFE........................................2.00000mcg_DFE
Vitamin B-12........................................0.00000mcg
Vitamin A, IU.......................................0.00000IU
Vitamin A, RE......................................0.00000mcg_RE
Vitamin D............................................0.00000IU
Vitamin E............................................0.00000mg_ATE

100 grams of honey yields 300 kcal.
640 ml of orange juice also yields 300 kcal
plus:

Water..........................................591.34919g
Energy........................................301.36708kcal
Protein quality...............................10.28%
Protein...........................................4.68793g
-Methionine....................................0.02009g
-Cysteine.......................................0.03348g
Total lipid (Fat)...............................1.33940g
Carbohydrate...............................69.64928g
Fiber, total dietary...........................1.33940g

Minerals, and trace elements
Calcium, Ca...............................73.66751mg
Iron, Fe........................................1.33940mg
Magnesium, Mg..........................73.66751mg
Phosphorus, P..............................113.84978mg
Potassium, K..........................1339.40928mg
Sodium, Na..................................6.69704mg
Zinc, Zn.......................................0.33485mg
Copper, Cu..................................0.29467mg
Manganese, Mn............................0.09375mg
Selenium, Se...............................0.00066mg
Iodide, I.......................................0.00669mg
Chromium, Cr..............................0.00669mg
Nickel, Ni....................................0.00669mg
Fluorine, F...................................0.00602mg
Boron, B......................................0.66970mg
Silicon, Si....................................6.69704mg
Chloride.....................................25.44877mg

Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid.............334.85232mg
Vitamin B1, Thiamin..............................0.60273mg
Vitamin B2, Riboflavin...........................0.20091mg
Vitamin B3, Niacin, Nicotinamide...........2.67881mg
Vitamin B5, Pantothenic acid.................1.27243mg
Vitamin B6, Pyridoxine..........................0.26788mg
Folate, total......................................200.91139mcg
-Folate, food.....................................200.91139mcg
-Folate, DFE....................................200.91139mcg_DFE
Vitamin A, RE..................................133.94092mcg_RE
-beta-carotene..................................221.00253mcg
Vitamin E............................................0.60273mg_ATE

Glucose........................................15.40320g
Fructose.......................................18.75172g

Lipids
14:0, tetradecanoic, myristic.............0.00669g
16:0, hexadecanoic, palmitic.............0.14063g
18:0, octadecanoic, stearic...............0.00669g
16:1, palmitoleic, undiff....................0.03348g
18:1, oleic, undiff.............................0.21430g

18:2, linoleic, undifferentiated............0.19421g
18:3, linolenic, undifferentiated..........0.07366g

will I really miss some important nutrients?

Absolutely.

[fred]

Seems quiet contradictory to your previous statement "honey hardly contains any nutrients at all."

[RRM]

You think i didnt know what honey contains?
I posted that already in 2006 in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=608

I guess you did not check out the differences between orange juice and honey?
The most important differences:

- Honey contains no omega 3 LNA
- no vitamin beta-carotene
- no vitamin E
- no substantial vitamin B1 (3 mcg versus 603 mcg)
- no substantial vitamin B9 (2 mcg versus 200 mcg)
- no substantial vitamin C (2 mg versus 335 mcg)
- little vitamin B2 (50 mcg versus 200 mcg)
- little vitamin B3 (130 mcg versus 2679 mcg)
- little vitamin B5 (70 mcg versus 1272 mcg)

Seems quiet contradictory to your previous statement "honey hardly contains any nutrients at all."

You say that because the list of nutrients is long?
The length of the list is not important.
What matters are the numbers, the actual contents.

Provided that I eat other fruits, and also some orange juice (max 1L a day), will I really miss some important nutrients?

Regarding nutrients, honey cannot replace OJ.
Honey is like sugar; it provides you with energy, but not with the nutrients that you still need (antioxidants, B vitamins).
You will need to submit your version of this diet to the nutrient calculator,
and check what you are missing (consuming some fruit, you will be fine regarding vitamin C).
Then supplement with more / other fruits / animal food to compensate for the lack of nutrients in honey.

[fred]

Honey+coconut oil works better for me than OJ+sugar+olive oil. I already eat around 300g of meat or fish a day. I will increase my daily egg yolk intake, as I can't increase my fruit intake because of the fibers.
Thank you RRM for the clarification.

[RRM]

Ah, ok. You are welcome.
Why dont you use a juice extractor to get apple juice or similar?

[fred]

Ah, ok. You are welcome.
Why dont you use a juice extractor to get apple juice or similar?

Apple juice gives me diarrhea (malic acid?).

(EDIT) The issue about urinating a lot has been split off (/EDIT)

[Kookaburra]

Not to mention honey is bad, teeth wise,

[RRM]

yes, but so is sugar, and OJ, and fruits in general, and normal eating.

[fred]

Not to mention honey is bad, teeth wise,

I let honey dissolve on my tongue, to limit contact with tooth.

[Kookaburra]

Sometimes I wonder whether drinking so much OJ will compromise the body's absorption of vitamin c.

Not to mention honey is bad, teeth wise,

I let honey dissolve on my tongue, to limit contact with tooth.

Doesn't honey take quite some time to dissolve if you put it on the tongue?

[fred]

Doesn't honey take quite some time to dissolve if you put it on the tongue?

It depends on the honey : some becomes hard soon after extraction (contains more glucose that crystallises) and some stays soft longer (contains more fructose). The creamy soft honey dissolves in a few tens seconds in the mouth.