As I wrote in positive testimonials - I've noticed truly great health improvements following wai. But, I don't feel I've reached where I want to be yet, so I wanted to share my diet, thoughts and a ideas here to see if I could get some feedback. I really appreciate all of you who are here, sharing your experience and wisdom!
I've started wai primarily for acne. [I've been completely 100 percent raw for 3.5 years (minus a handful of cooked experimental meals)] My skin's better but not where I want it to be, still lots of sandy bumps, a few white heads a day, a larger cyst which hasn't healed in a month, and a few random painful breakouts. The breakouts seem to occur on days when I've had A)a meal or two of fruit which is too large in one sitting, B)Meals slightly too large, too close together or C)Not enough animal food that day or D)Too many sweet fruit meals in a day. I don't want to debate the role of sugar and acne, I do agree with wai that it doesn't cause it, but it seems something in my body is aggravate by too much of it, more so than others who have a problem with too much protein (I think I'm fine with more eggs than the sample diet).
I've contemplated the fructose malabsorption issue, and wonder if that's a personal factor for me. It seems to cause some gut issues, which I've noticed on occassion - bloat, slow digestion/constipation. The beauty of fruit, and the wai plan is that the amount of fructose in each small snack is not significant enough to cause reactions, unless meal size or accumulation gets too big?
I am wondering about the gut/acne correlation. I still get occasional constipation and frequent bloating. I know probiotics are not recommended, but I am considering some fermented young coconut water in small amounts, or home made coconut milk yogurt to improve gut bacteria. Acceptable munch foods? After much time following NH and fruitarianism, I am inclined to experiment and not go by any plans or rules. I like the munch food aspects of wai, but I would value hearing anyone's thoughts on this! Also I have found chia seeds to prevent constipation, but they are a seed, thoughts?
I've noticed skin reactions very quickly after different types of meals, always the same day and sometimes as quick as 20 minutes past the meal. Certainly a few of the sweet meals have made more inflammation. I began using cod liver oil recently, and there was an immediate calming of inflammation and huge reduction in acne overnight. After a life of veg/vegan this was the first time trying an animal product other than dairy/eggs, and I was simply astonished by CLO's effects. I wanted to see if there was reason to think about including fish in my diet, and this has given me some incentive. Still preparing myself mentally, but will perhaps try some soon.
OK. Quick acne history: birth to 20 - gluten free, low soy, cooked vegetarian diet. no acne. Age 20-30 cooked vegan, low gluten, no acne. Age 30-31 100 percent raw - greens, sprouts, nuts, a few condiments, and 2-3 servings fruit, no acne. Age 31 to present - added raw dairy to previous raw diet, no acne. Then went to low fat raw vegan (80-10-10) and immediately got bad acne that has lasted nearly 2 years, until now. I've been trying various things intermittently for the past 2 years and wai is the first thing to work out.
First month of 100 percent wai I saw a lot of clearing up for about two weeks, then noticed worsening between ovulation and menses. This month (second month wai) the breakouts haven't been as severe, though still present, and the body acne is gone, hurray!
So maybe I need some patience, Rome wasn't built in a day, but suggestions would be really welcome right now!
Here's a sample wai eating day where I'm still noticing acne:
(note: I have tried using more fruit juice, but it has led to not feeling full and then having meals that are too big. Also my digestion slows down significantly. Is this temporary? Perhaps I should slow down on fiber gradually? I've also noticed I feel better with a more solid morning meal of avocado and/or some eggs)
cup OJ with OO - sips
half cup mashed banana with .75 TBS coconut oil + sprinkle of raisins
half cup mashed banana with .75 TBS coconut oil + sprinkle of raisins
cup tomato/cuke OO salad
cup tomato/cuke OO salad
cup papaya cubes
strawberries
cup papaya cubes
cup tomato/cuke salad w/.5 avocado
.5 avocado w/3 yolks
pause
large tangerine
passion fruit
.5 avocado w/2 yolks
After noticing that my face flares up during sweet fruit eating periods and relaxes with yolks/salad/avos, or a tsp of cod liver oil, I decided to try a day of less sweet fruit (yesterday) and this morning my skin felt very good, and I noticed a few black heads were pushed out. My pores are tighter too. I began today with cuke/tomato/avo/oo salad and have felt good steady energy from there. Are there drawbacks to pursuing a lower sweet fruit style wai diet for a time, just to work on skin improvement? I felt I needed to drink more water, with less juicy fruit, and I wonder about a decrease in vit./minerals.
Thanks so much for reading through all my thoughts and questions!
Reaching where I want to be
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- Posts: 39
- https://cutt.ly/meble-kuchenne-wroclaw
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Re: Reaching where I want to be
If that's all you eat per day then you're getting extremely little protein, like 20-25 grams! I would really suggest you to add some fish, or maybe more egg yolks (but fish would be much better, for variety).cup OJ with OO - sips
half cup mashed banana with .75 TBS coconut oil + sprinkle of raisins
half cup mashed banana with .75 TBS coconut oil + sprinkle of raisins
cup tomato/cuke OO salad
cup tomato/cuke OO salad
cup papaya cubes
strawberries
cup papaya cubes
cup tomato/cuke salad w/.5 avocado
.5 avocado w/3 yolks
pause
large tangerine
passion fruit
.5 avocado w/2 yolks
From your history it seems like you either have problems with fruits or with too little protein. If your skin is reacting something is not right. I know the fruits theory sounds perfect, but individually it may not apply perfectly to everyone. Sometimes I wonder how people survive at all on that 80-10-10 diet.
I can only suggest you to experiment with less fruit to see if it makes a difference. Substitute some of it (or if you want quicker results, all of it) with more fats, and maybe some steamed rice as an alternative for carbs, if you're not getting enough of them from fruits. You need min 100-200 grams of carbs per day, but not much more than that unless you're very active.
Re: Reaching where I want to be
do you use any birth control pills, medications, topical creams or use any store bought juices such as store bought OJ
what type of coconut oil? (where did you buy it whats the brand called)
do the raisins come in a box with list of stuff on the back? any additives/preservatives?
how do you spread out your meals? do you eat a lot of sugary stuff at great speed? do you drink a lot of fluid (water) or not very much?
what is your exercise regimen, are you sedentary
what type of coconut oil? (where did you buy it whats the brand called)
do the raisins come in a box with list of stuff on the back? any additives/preservatives?
how do you spread out your meals? do you eat a lot of sugary stuff at great speed? do you drink a lot of fluid (water) or not very much?
what is your exercise regimen, are you sedentary
Re: Reaching where I want to be
You guys are awesome, and very kind with your responses, thanks!
Dime: I think you're right with the protein being low, even eating mountains of fruit on 80-10-10 my protein never reached more than 30gms. Any recommendations for where it should be? I'm 5ft 8inch, somewhere around 120-25 lbs, and moderately active (see below) How many yolks could I increase to? Maximum I've tried is 6, though usually spread out into two meals. I'll see what I can do about increasing protein. Yesterday I also had fewer sweet fruit servings and my skin is feeling better. I'm getting just around 100gms of carbs, with the cukes/tomatoes/avocado and 3-4 fruit servings. I find it much easier to eat smaller fruit portions with higher fat and lower sugar fruit... I'm thinking its just a balancing act and at some point I'll do ok with more sweet fruit meals.
Panacea: Nope - no birth control/medications/preservatives. I've been all natural and have stay out of the medical system for a very long time (even with childbirths:). I do live in an area within 20 miles of big banana plantations, and that could be a possible factor, but I have had clear skin while living in this area, so I'm assuming its not the main factor. The raisins are preservative free, but could be dried at high heat. They aren't normally a big part of my diet. I keep them as back up for when we're low on fruit, and the sample day I happened to record above was the day I had to go shopping. Coconut oil - I used home-made so guaranteed raw (yeah, I learned how to make it, but it is a big project, and tricky to collect the oil!) I've found a locally made source this week, but when I tasted it, it tasted toasted, so I'll save it for when the family wants a cooked meal. No store bought juices.
I have a moderate exercise routine. 1hr. yoga (surya namaskara - sun salutations) every morning. Its low intensity and works up a sweat, but isn't cardio. I take two walks a day with kids, 20-30 mins. each at child pace. House work, swimming, playing with the kids. Its not sedentary, but its not athletic either. I also have a bit of sitting around time.
Meal timing: from after exercising in the morning to early evening (max. 6pm) because I sleep early and get up early I like to sleep on an empty-ish stomach and am more hungry in AMs. Yes, I think I was eating too many sugary meals too close together, no more than an hour apart, and I do tend to eat fast. I don't have standard size pieces of fruit here, for example bananas range from about 2 inches to 9 inches! so I've been measuring my cup and trying to stick to about a cup serving. Any times I've felt extra hungry and eaten the next meal too close I have noticed more break outs.
Water: I've just begun drinking it again in the last week. Prior, I was feeling hydrated and was relying on OJ and juicy fruits. This week, exchanging some of the juicier meals for fattier meals I've had more water. I start the day with several cups, drinking slowly, sips. Then have sips 10-15 min. before/between meals.
So, its been two days now of starting the day with more fats and its been effective to control how fast and how much of the sweet fruits I've been eating. I also tried a small bit of fermented coconut water, and digestion is improved a little. Any thoughts on fermented foods? My stomach's been much flatter, no bloating or heavy feeling and good even energy.
Dime: I think you're right with the protein being low, even eating mountains of fruit on 80-10-10 my protein never reached more than 30gms. Any recommendations for where it should be? I'm 5ft 8inch, somewhere around 120-25 lbs, and moderately active (see below) How many yolks could I increase to? Maximum I've tried is 6, though usually spread out into two meals. I'll see what I can do about increasing protein. Yesterday I also had fewer sweet fruit servings and my skin is feeling better. I'm getting just around 100gms of carbs, with the cukes/tomatoes/avocado and 3-4 fruit servings. I find it much easier to eat smaller fruit portions with higher fat and lower sugar fruit... I'm thinking its just a balancing act and at some point I'll do ok with more sweet fruit meals.
Panacea: Nope - no birth control/medications/preservatives. I've been all natural and have stay out of the medical system for a very long time (even with childbirths:). I do live in an area within 20 miles of big banana plantations, and that could be a possible factor, but I have had clear skin while living in this area, so I'm assuming its not the main factor. The raisins are preservative free, but could be dried at high heat. They aren't normally a big part of my diet. I keep them as back up for when we're low on fruit, and the sample day I happened to record above was the day I had to go shopping. Coconut oil - I used home-made so guaranteed raw (yeah, I learned how to make it, but it is a big project, and tricky to collect the oil!) I've found a locally made source this week, but when I tasted it, it tasted toasted, so I'll save it for when the family wants a cooked meal. No store bought juices.
I have a moderate exercise routine. 1hr. yoga (surya namaskara - sun salutations) every morning. Its low intensity and works up a sweat, but isn't cardio. I take two walks a day with kids, 20-30 mins. each at child pace. House work, swimming, playing with the kids. Its not sedentary, but its not athletic either. I also have a bit of sitting around time.
Meal timing: from after exercising in the morning to early evening (max. 6pm) because I sleep early and get up early I like to sleep on an empty-ish stomach and am more hungry in AMs. Yes, I think I was eating too many sugary meals too close together, no more than an hour apart, and I do tend to eat fast. I don't have standard size pieces of fruit here, for example bananas range from about 2 inches to 9 inches! so I've been measuring my cup and trying to stick to about a cup serving. Any times I've felt extra hungry and eaten the next meal too close I have noticed more break outs.
Water: I've just begun drinking it again in the last week. Prior, I was feeling hydrated and was relying on OJ and juicy fruits. This week, exchanging some of the juicier meals for fattier meals I've had more water. I start the day with several cups, drinking slowly, sips. Then have sips 10-15 min. before/between meals.
So, its been two days now of starting the day with more fats and its been effective to control how fast and how much of the sweet fruits I've been eating. I also tried a small bit of fermented coconut water, and digestion is improved a little. Any thoughts on fermented foods? My stomach's been much flatter, no bloating or heavy feeling and good even energy.
Re: Reaching where I want to be
I have also had problems linked with eating too fast/too much sugar/fruits close together and constipation. A huge part of it besides the blood sugar rollercoaster possibly affecting the hormone coaster (and acne), I would say is not chewing food. Even liquid fruit juices you should chew to mix generous amounts of saliva in. In all individuals this is not as neccesary but compromised digestive systems need this help greatly. Try to chew everything you eat including all liquids besides water, space out small snacks frequently through the day instead of big meals, eat only one type of food item per meal (dont mix fruits and animal food), and skip the fermented products for 2 weeks and see if you get clear and stay that way.
The only reason to exclude fermented drinks is to isolate as many variables as possible, introducing a shotgun approach brings in things that could negate the healthy effects of another approach so it's best to approach things 1 by 1. In my opinion some types of fermented drinks may be beneficial but there is also evidence they do more harm than good, just my thoughts.
Also be on the lookout for any variables that could be causing your acne besides this such as breathing second hand smoke or whatever you think of that hasnt been mentioned yet
On a side note when you exercise do you use nasal breathing only, absolutely no mouth breathing? If not, you should. If it's uncomfortable, the temperature where you are exercising is too hot or you are exercising too hard, so adjust as necessary.
The only reason to exclude fermented drinks is to isolate as many variables as possible, introducing a shotgun approach brings in things that could negate the healthy effects of another approach so it's best to approach things 1 by 1. In my opinion some types of fermented drinks may be beneficial but there is also evidence they do more harm than good, just my thoughts.
Also be on the lookout for any variables that could be causing your acne besides this such as breathing second hand smoke or whatever you think of that hasnt been mentioned yet
On a side note when you exercise do you use nasal breathing only, absolutely no mouth breathing? If not, you should. If it's uncomfortable, the temperature where you are exercising is too hot or you are exercising too hard, so adjust as necessary.
Re: Reaching where I want to be
Thanks so much panacea, you give great advice, and I'm learning a lot from the ideas you're sharing.
I think you are right about introducing too many variables, I have done that many, many times. The fermented coconut water hasn't made me break out yet (4 days in?) and I still have a bunch, so I think I'll finish it up and then re-evaluate. I haven't had it the rest of this diet trial, so it may qualify as a 1 by 1 experiment, but I'm not sold on it and may try a good 2 weeks without.
I do breath nasally when doing most exercises. I've been following the buteyko thread with interest and doing some of my own research too. I do race my kids sometimes, swimming or running, and they're fast, and I find myself gasping for air:) I think I've nearly conquered the mouth breathing at night as I do not have a dry mouth in the mornings anymore. I didn't use tape, but I did try a headband wrap over my mouth, and that worked nicely:)
Can't think of any other variables, except tap water, which I avoid on my face, and climate (hot and humid) which I can't change, and often don't want to. I like the heat.
Food combining I am very aware of and spent a good 3 months with mono mealing on 80-10-10. Yeah, some people seem to do well on it, but like anything else on the internet it is hard to say what is an honest reflection. It is easy to fool ones self I've discovered, so I can not blame anyone. Deficiencies do run rampant though, if you read between the lines.
Panacea, when you say not to mix things, do you also mean olive oil and fruit? Should I separate out egg from avocado? I like them together, but perhaps that's contributing to digestion and causing some of the acne? I am one to eat in a hurry, so chewing is a good reminder. I find it easier to eat slowly if I have started the day with some fatty food, I don't know why.
I've been having a very good skin week so far though, so I think I've been doing better. Hormonally, this is usually the time I would be breaking out significantly and I have only had smaller zits, that are now in the healing stages, so I must be doing things right at the moment. I will continue on and see how it goes, reporting back here on it, in case its helpful to others later on. (I have found so many useful things from browsing around here!) I'll try to keep track of another days eating to list here. I've had lots of small avocado meals (maybe 3-4 small avocados a day?) with either tomato or cucumber, lots of olive oil, 2-4 sipping or snacking meals of sweet juicy fruit, olive oil, 5-6 yolks, a small bit of coconut yogurt or fermented coconut water and 1/2 TBS cod liver oil. I've gotten close to 30gms of protein a day, I think the avocados are helping, and the carbs have been just a little over 100.
Thanks for the help, and any more suggestions are very much appreciated!
I think you are right about introducing too many variables, I have done that many, many times. The fermented coconut water hasn't made me break out yet (4 days in?) and I still have a bunch, so I think I'll finish it up and then re-evaluate. I haven't had it the rest of this diet trial, so it may qualify as a 1 by 1 experiment, but I'm not sold on it and may try a good 2 weeks without.
I do breath nasally when doing most exercises. I've been following the buteyko thread with interest and doing some of my own research too. I do race my kids sometimes, swimming or running, and they're fast, and I find myself gasping for air:) I think I've nearly conquered the mouth breathing at night as I do not have a dry mouth in the mornings anymore. I didn't use tape, but I did try a headband wrap over my mouth, and that worked nicely:)
Can't think of any other variables, except tap water, which I avoid on my face, and climate (hot and humid) which I can't change, and often don't want to. I like the heat.
Food combining I am very aware of and spent a good 3 months with mono mealing on 80-10-10. Yeah, some people seem to do well on it, but like anything else on the internet it is hard to say what is an honest reflection. It is easy to fool ones self I've discovered, so I can not blame anyone. Deficiencies do run rampant though, if you read between the lines.
Panacea, when you say not to mix things, do you also mean olive oil and fruit? Should I separate out egg from avocado? I like them together, but perhaps that's contributing to digestion and causing some of the acne? I am one to eat in a hurry, so chewing is a good reminder. I find it easier to eat slowly if I have started the day with some fatty food, I don't know why.
I've been having a very good skin week so far though, so I think I've been doing better. Hormonally, this is usually the time I would be breaking out significantly and I have only had smaller zits, that are now in the healing stages, so I must be doing things right at the moment. I will continue on and see how it goes, reporting back here on it, in case its helpful to others later on. (I have found so many useful things from browsing around here!) I'll try to keep track of another days eating to list here. I've had lots of small avocado meals (maybe 3-4 small avocados a day?) with either tomato or cucumber, lots of olive oil, 2-4 sipping or snacking meals of sweet juicy fruit, olive oil, 5-6 yolks, a small bit of coconut yogurt or fermented coconut water and 1/2 TBS cod liver oil. I've gotten close to 30gms of protein a day, I think the avocados are helping, and the carbs have been just a little over 100.
Thanks for the help, and any more suggestions are very much appreciated!
Re: Reaching where I want to be
when you have a blood sugar dip because you haven't been keeping it steady by small spread out meals then you tend to eat much more quickly, not chewing, and eating/drinking too much causing stress on your digestive system. even if you are just eating egg yolks or olive oil you should chew/swish it around your mouth for at least 30 seconds per bite as if it was very tough steak to thoroughly coat it with enzymes. An ideal situation, used by people who have extreme digestive issues, is to actually chew it until it dissapears. Basically what happens is it slowly escapes bit by bit down your throat just by chewing, and this is the ideal way to eat anything although time consuming. You will really notice a tremendous difference if you do this, even if you weren't eating wai foods you shouldn't have constipation if you do this. Although there would be little point to it since doing this makes food taste like slime for the most part and not pleasurable, so might as well use health food.
Yes it takes more time, yes it doesn't have as pleasurable of a texture, but you will actually save time by not having constipation and having to feel like a zombie the whole day.
In case you are wondering, in healthy people not only is the rest of their digestive system functioning better, but their saliva is also stronger and more effective. That is why some people have to chew much longer for the same effect, but this is only temporary, not a lifetime thing. Eventually as your health increases your saliva and digestive tract will function more efficiently too.
As far as food combining, I believe in the simpler the better, some people try to mix things together to get a better taste and while this is fine for a long term diet it shouldn't be used when you are trying to heal yourself, it is again another variable. Egg yolks are extremely nutrient rich and hard on your digestive system compared to fruits, combining with oil doesn't seem like a good idea for someone as sensitive as you, for now. If you want to combine oil with juice in order to better control blood sugar stability then that is a good idea and worth the trade off of the food combining variable. These are just my opinions and in the grand scheme of things not that big of a deal, but the more nit picky things you do by crossing out variables the faster you will be able to pinpoint what is causing your problem and/or find what fixes it.
Yes it takes more time, yes it doesn't have as pleasurable of a texture, but you will actually save time by not having constipation and having to feel like a zombie the whole day.
In case you are wondering, in healthy people not only is the rest of their digestive system functioning better, but their saliva is also stronger and more effective. That is why some people have to chew much longer for the same effect, but this is only temporary, not a lifetime thing. Eventually as your health increases your saliva and digestive tract will function more efficiently too.
As far as food combining, I believe in the simpler the better, some people try to mix things together to get a better taste and while this is fine for a long term diet it shouldn't be used when you are trying to heal yourself, it is again another variable. Egg yolks are extremely nutrient rich and hard on your digestive system compared to fruits, combining with oil doesn't seem like a good idea for someone as sensitive as you, for now. If you want to combine oil with juice in order to better control blood sugar stability then that is a good idea and worth the trade off of the food combining variable. These are just my opinions and in the grand scheme of things not that big of a deal, but the more nit picky things you do by crossing out variables the faster you will be able to pinpoint what is causing your problem and/or find what fixes it.
Re: Reaching where I want to be
Thanks panacea, I'll try the simpler meals and the chewing... it makes a lot of sense.