Replacing the animal products

[anders.ohrn]

Hey all,

I've been following the Wai diet for a couple of weeks now, and I really like it. I used to eat a lot of cooked food - eliminating these in favor of raw foods have proven greatly beneficial to me! However, I also used to be a strict vegan, so I am not crazy about including the egg yolks in my diet (in fact, I am about to throw up every time I taste them, even if I put them in smoothies). Raw meat is out of the question for me, for ethical reasons.

Thus my question is; how would it be possible for me to replace the animal foods with supplements? Since I live in Sweden, which is not very sunny at least half of the year, I think I want to take a D3 vitamin supplement. Obviously B12 would be another good choice. I am also thinking about taking some flax seed oil in addition to the brazilian nuts, for omega 3.

Any feedback on this and additional recommendations are really appreciated!

Peace
Anders

[anders.ohrn]

One last thing - is there any chance of over consuming vitamin B12 and D?

[Oscar]

Hello Anders, welcome on the forum.

What about fish? Or fish oil?
Are you sure your reaction to the egg yolks isn't psychological?

As far as I know, you can't easily consume too much B12, but you can consume too much D.

[nick]

Regarding the eggs, are you positively sure that they are fresh?
Fresh yolks blended in with orange juice is good too.

If you read the article on protein you will see that if you eat the right combinations of fruit you can satisfy the protein requirements. You could eat Brazil nuts, but I think you would still need some protein from animal food, not sure though.

[anders.ohrn]

Thanks for your replies, guys!

Oscar: Yeah, I think you're right about your thoughts on over-consuming B12 and D. However, a lot of people out there seem to argue that the FDA recommendations for vitamin D are way too low. I know that vitamin D deficiency is very common in Sweden, so to be on the safe side I am planning on starting taking a D supplement, along with B12. I will also start taking some flax seed oil in my smoothies, to balance out the omega 6. I am really excited about this supplemented raw food diet, and will post my experiences here when I have followed it for a while...

Nick: As I think I noted in my original post, eating animals (including fish) is out of the question for me, for ethical reasons. On top of this, the Swedish counterpart to FDA do not recommend Swedes to eat fish from the Baltic ocean more than 3 times a week, and they recommend pregnant women to eat no fish whatsoever, due to the high halts of toxins. I find this highly disturbing...

Peace
Anders

[RRM]

Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
a lot of people out there seem to argue that the FDA recommendations for vitamin D are way too low.

Yes, because they are selling vitamins.
People make money by making us scared.
The best way to make sure to ingest the right amount, and not too much, is by consuming natural foods, so that the body can properly adjust the absorption rate. The only way to do so is on this diet, is by consuming egg yolks / fish.

I know that vitamin D deficiency is very common in Sweden,

There is a lot of rickets in Sweden?
I dont think so. Vitamin D deficiency results in bone-deformations.
But that is not what is happening. What is happening, is that a lack of vitamin D is diagnosed based on what they assume to be the right serum vitamin D level, which is based on the assumption that the high osteoporosis incidence is caused by low serum-vitamin D levels, which is not true.

they recommend pregnant women to eat no fish whatsoever, due to the high halts of toxins. I find this highly disturbing...

The Swedish FDA recommends pregnant women not to eat any fish at all?
Do you have a link?

[anders.ohrn]

Guys,

Thanks for your replies! I have certainly had some second thoughts about the whole supplements thing - I am the kind of guy who avoids pills at any cost, so eating supplements does not exactly feel natural for me... I am going to give the egg yolks another try, I guess. (Please see my other post about food combination, by the way.)

RRM:

My recollection of the Swedish FDA recommendations were not totally accurate. What they recommend is this:

"For girls and women of child bearing age:

- Do not eat cod liver
- Do not eat perch, cod (and some other fish) more than once a week.
- Do not eat fatty fish from the Baltic ocean more than once a month

For other consumers:

- Do not eat cod liver on a regular basis
- Do not eat fatty fish from the Baltic ocean more than once a week

Here's the link, but I only think it's available in Swedish:

http://www.slv.se/templates/SLV_Page.aspx?id=11374

Peace
Anders

[RRM]

Is the Baltic sea more polluted (with heavy metals)?

[anders.ohrn]

The Baltic Ocean is commonly referred to as a heavily polluted ocean, yes.

[spring]

There are similar concerns in Australia. Many pregnant women made a point to eat fish while they were pregnant wanting to have a healthy diet but some cases of unexplained miscarriages were traced to high mercury ingestion in many of these women due to fish consumption. They had a TV report on this in a cuurent affairs type program in Australia and they (some researchers who had investigated this) warned pregnant women not to consume fish or other seafood while pregnant or consume only a very little amount of it. It was particularly ironic because many of these women were very health-conscious type people who had researched what they should eat while pregnant and felt they should include seafood as a regular part of their pregnancy diet.

[RRM]

Hatchery salmon must be very low in mercury, I suspect, as their swimming water is controlled. Anyone?

[spring]

In Korea, there was a scare about the antiseptic (malachite green) they put into the water of hatchery fish. It is a known carcinogen that was banned in many countries.

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200510/ ... 310440.htm

http://www.fishupdate.com/news/fullstory.php/...


http://archives.foodsafetynetwork.ca/an ... july_7.htm

But I think the salmon we get in Korea is imported from overseas - I don't know the origins of it.

[spring]

I meant farmed fish not hatchery fish.

[marika]

Originally posted by anders.ohrn:
One last thing - is there any chance of over consuming vitamin B12 and D?

Yes, for B12:

Cutis. 1991 Aug;48(2):119-20.

Acneiform eruption due to "megadose" vitamins B6 and B12.

Sherertz EF.

Department of Dermatology, Bowman Gray School of Medicine, Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27103.

Medications and other exogenous factors are known to be capable of exacerbating acne or precipitating acneiform eruptions. This case illustrates an eruption resembling acne rosacea that was temporally associated with daily ingestion of high-dose B vitamin supplement. The eruption failed to respond to the usual treatment regimens for rosacea, but promptly improved when use of the vitamin supplement was discontinued.

Publication Types:

* Case Reports

PMID: 1834437 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Smaller doses are probably safer.

Yes, probably for D, also (although not necessarily regarding acne--for that I do not know), but 1000 IU per day of D3 might be safe as some "experts" are currently recommending. 400 IU per day, the more established recommendation, might be better. There are some antagonisms between vitamin A and D and I do not know how it would affect the skin to take a high dose of one and not the other. Probably the more modest dosing is safer.

If you wish to avoid animal products, you could consider taking D2 instead, but some studies are finding that it is not as effective as the animal-based D3 (from fish livers most often or lanolin).