Omega 3:6 ratio

[Kasper]

About omega 3 eggs
I once "heard" (i know not really scientific) that those omega-3 chickens are fed poor-quality sources of omega-3 fats that are already oxidized.
Which wouldn't be healthy at all.

About omega 3 in lamb
In the context of slow-cooking. Lamb has an excellent omega-3/omega-6 ratio. (And tastes very good !)
It depends of course on the part you are eating, but from the data I've looked on, the ratio is between 1:1 to 1:4.
I was very suprised reading this, because I've never heard anybody talking about it on any of the millions of health websites I've seen on the last couple of years.

How would slow cooking affect those polyunsaturated fatty acids RRM ?

[dime]

It won't affect them much from what I know, only frying or similar high heat methods will lead to faster oxidation.
Heat is not a huge problem for fat, it's much more problematic for protein.

[RRM]

Of all fats, polyunsaturated fatty acids (because of the multiple double bonds) are most susceptible to oxidation.
The location of the double bond is also important, and also the fats' surroundings (a highly cohesive gel matrix is very much protective; Tolasa S et al), such as the presence / absence of antioxidants.
Pure mixtures of saturated fatty acids do not undergo oxidative degradation after 40 hours of 110 degrees Celsius.
Brian R. Moser

"4-oxo-2-hexenal, a novel mutagenic product, may be produced from omega-3 polyunsaturated fats, such as alpha-linolenic acid-, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)- and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA)-TG, which are more easily oxidized than omega-6 fats"
Kawai K et al

"When oils were treated under cooking conditions, the aldehydes formed were comparable to those formed under accelerated storage conditions. Fish oils produced more MA, glyoxal, and methylglyoxal than did vegetable oils because the fish oils contained higher levels of long-chain PUFA, such as EPA and DHA, than did the vegetable oils"
Fujioka K et a

"The amount of EPA + DHA slightly decreased with frying in salmon, and increased in cod" (RRM: due to loss of water,
as in farmed salmon, the omega-6/omega-3 ratio was 0.38 (raw), and 0.39 to 0.58 in fried salmon.).
"The type of oil has more influence in the nutritional fish quality for the lean fish compared to that of the fatty fish.
The use of extra virgin olive oil was efficient to avoid a significant increase of the lipid oxidation intensity during frying in cod but not in salmon."
Ansorena D et al

"absolute contents of essential polyunsaturated fatty acids--eicosapentaenoic (EPA) and docosahexaenoic (DHA) decreased significantly only in the process of frying."
Gladyshev M et al

"Controlled cooking of tilapia preserved approximately 90% of EPA and DHA"
Shapira N et al

"Pan-fried scallops showed a higher concentration of EPA, DHA and total n-3 PUFA while steamed scallops had a higher concentration of DHA only (p<0.05). The ratio of n-3/n-6 PUFA was markedly lower in both fried groups than in control and steamed scallops". (RRM: the latter is proof that the former is due to loss of water)
Su XQ et al

[overkees]

The chickens convert the ALA to the DHA and EPA themselves, so what really is the question is: How much ALA converts to mutagenic products in the preperation of flaxseed oil that is fed to the chicken? And how fast oxidizes the flaxseed oil after opening?

1. The flaxseed oil itself is used in high quantities at the chicken farms that make omega 3 eggs. So the oxidation after opening of the bottle doesn't play a big role here.
2. In the preperation of the flaxseed oil there could convert some of the ALA to bad substances. I can't find any data on this.
3. I think the chicken dislike rancid products, so the farmers would rather give them fresh flaxseed oil.
4. The yolk is the stuff where babies are formed, this part of the chicken would have protective mechanisms to limit the transportation of bad substances.

I think the oxidation part doesn't play a big part. Since I swapped to the omega 3 eggs I have no more gasses and no more constipation and never have to use more than 2 whipes to clean my behind. I used to sometimes go up till 7-8 whipes close to 100% wai. This fact alone is reason enough for me to believe that it is indeed better. Although I also do eat more fish than I used to. I'm still willing to take the risk.

[dime]

Why Fish Is Better Than Supplements...

The take away from this article is that the omega 3 in fish oil is inferior to omega 3 in fish.

The researchers found that DHA rapidly and reversibly activates these channels by increasing currents by up to 20 fold.
...
In comparison, the team found that a dietary supplement, DHA ethyl ester, found in most fish oil pills fails to activate the same channels, and even antagonizes the positive effect of DHA from natural sources, on the cells. The DHA ethyl ester seems to compete with the natural form of DHA for binding sites on the ion channel.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 154531.htm

[fred]

It seems quite impossible to balance the omega 3 - 6 ratio to 1:4 on a diet rich in high omega 6 food like olive oil, avocado, farmed salmon, egg yolks, nuts. The only safe food regarding this ratio are fruits, wild fish/seafood and possibly grass fed meat. But this would be difficult to get enough calories on such a limited diet without eating too much meat, especially for someone who can't eat a lot of fruits.

Clearly the original Wai diet is not healthy in this regard (too much omega 6), unless you can get the bulk of your energy from fruits.

[Oscar]

Clearly the original Wai diet is not healthy in this regard (too much omega 6), unless you can get the bulk of your energy from fruits.

That is the point of the Wai Diet

[overkees]

Yes, just use small amounts of olive oil <30-50mL, lots of fatty fish (wild salmon, herring and mackerel) and lots of fruits. That way you will get to the 1:1 ratio easily.

[RRM]

high omega 6 food like ... farmed salmon

Farmed salmon high omega 6 food?
I dont think so... the n-3/n-6 ratio is at least: 4.0 / 1.1

Farmed salmon, atlantic
1.5% ALA (n-3)
0.9% EPA (n-3)
0.4% DPA (n-3)
1.1% DHA (n-3)
0.1% SDA (18:4 n-3)

0.90% (18:2 - undifferentiated, incl. LA)
0.02% GLA (18:3 n-6)
0.06% EDA (20:2 n-6)
0.02% (20:3 - undifferentiated, incl. DGLA, but also the n-3 ETE)
0.09% (20:4 - undifferentiated, incl. AA, but also the n-3 ETA)

[dime]

Olive oil, avocado, egg yolks, are also not high omega-6 foods in my opinion.. the ratio to omega-3 may be high yes, but they are not high in omega-6 by itself.

[fred]

Olive oil, avocado, egg yolks, are also not high omega-6 foods in my opinion.. the ratio to omega-3 may be high yes, but they are not high in omega-6 by itself.

The point is that you generally eat these food every day on a Wai diet, so that it is nearly impossible to have a correct ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. 1 avocado, 6 egg yolks, a couple of tablespoon of olive oil, not to mentioned a few nuts, are very common on a daily basis. 200g of oily fish, especially when farmed, is not enough to counterbalanced the excessive omega 6 intake (fruits have the right ratio in general so they don't improve the ratio).

I have experienced inflammation several time when I eat egg yolks or meat (not grassfed) regularly, and I wonder if it is not caused by excess omega 6.

[dime]

1 avocado, 6 egg yolks, a couple of tablespoon of olive oil, not to mentioned a few nuts, are very common on a daily basis.

That is certainly not excess omega-6.. according to which study is that too much?

1 avocado + 6 egg yolks + 3 tbsp olive oil + 30g walnuts (I think they are highest in omega-6):
3.5g omega-3
23.4g omega-6

Add in 200g farmed Atlantic salmon and you get ratio of 1:3 which is just fine according to the recommendations:
8.5g omega-3
25.3g omega-6

And take out the nuts (they are not absolutely necessary) and you get 1:2.4
5.8g omega-3
13.9g omega-6

[fred]

Yes, I didn't realized that farmed salmon was so fatty (not surprising I can't digest it), so that it can counterbalanced by itself other high omega 6 food!
Walnut is the best nut in terms of omega 3/omega 6 ratio. Brazilnut for instance has a much worst ration : 1/1151.
Also if you don't eat oily fish regularly (as I do), then your ratio gets worst.
In conclusion, you have to watch carefully your high omega 6 food intake in order to keep a decent ratio.

[RRM]

In conclusion, you have to watch carefully your high omega 6 food intake in order to keep a decent ratio.

Not really. People usually dont eat that many nuts.
Also, the evidence for a ratio deviating from the recommended ratio being significantly worse, is not convincing.
Or do you think otherwise?

[fred]

I have just noticed several times that I get inflammatory signs when I eat a lot of omega 6 food like egg yolks or fatty grainfed meat.