Calcium, Vitamin D, Vitamin A

[Stargazer1111]

I am on a very restricted ketogenic diet because my body cannot process carbohydrates (pancreatic disorder). Most of my calories have to come from fat, and I have been consuming a lot of ghee (clarified butter).

I was taking about 2000IU of Vitamin D, about 300mg of calcium (because I get only about 30mg daily from my diet), and getting about 8000IU or so of Vitamin A from the ghee.

I switched from ghee to beef tallow because I realized that I was getting a lot of vitamin A, but did not change anything else. When I took my dose of calcium the other day, I started getting heart palpitations and had a massive panic attack (I've had this before when trying to take more than 2000IU of vitamin D, so I am fairly certain that my calcium level went too high). I figured this was because I dropped the vitamin A but did not drop the vitamin D, so the vitamin D was left unchecked by the vitamin A.

The question is, how much calcium should we be getting daily and how much vitamin D? I have searched all over the Wai site but can't seem to find any numbers regarding this. I stopped taking the vitamin D and calcium temporarily because I felt like I was going to die, but now I am having sleep problems without the vitamin D.

I am totally confused!

[Aytundra]

Hello Stargazer1111,

The question is, how much calcium should we be getting daily and how much vitamin D? I have searched all over the Wai site but can't seem to find any numbers regarding this.

I see you are having some difficulties searching for numbers.
Most likely you will not find numbers, because of 2 reasons:

1) The Wai Diet does not recommend supplements: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-supplements.html
Vitamin D supplements, calcium supplements, beef tallow, and ghee (clarified butter) are not items on the Wai Calculator.
Food items found on the Wai Diet Calculator can be part of the Wai Diet.

The Wai Calculator can be found here:
Simple Version of the Wai Calculator: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-calcsimple.html
Advanced Version of the Wai Calculator: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-calculator.html
Try adding foods to the calculator and see what works for you.

2) You are suppose to get everything from food not supplements,
generally you are suppose to listen to your body for the amount of food:

"Another principle of the Wai Diet is to give the body what it needs, when it needs it." http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/twd-diet.html

Vitamin D
Wai dieters obtain their Vitamin D directly from animal foods, and indirectly from processing cholesterol + sunlight.
Cholesterol is obtained mainly from the animal foods:

"Vitamin D: Vitamin D is composed out of cholesterol, indirectly requiring sunlight. Fish and egg yolk also contain vitamin D."
http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-foodpernut.html

Calcium
Wai dieters obtain their Calcium from foods not supplements:

"Calcium: Hazelnuts, dried currants, figs, egg yolk, Brazil nuts, tamarind and olives contain the most, but walnuts, raisins, oranges, kiwis and mandarins also contain a lot of calcium." http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-foodpernut.html

I am having sleep problems

On the forum, from what I have read, some people mentioned egg yolks to help with sleep before going to bed, see this link (RRM also gives a science article link to explain sleep) --> (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2225&p=25119&hilit ... aby#p25119);
1 raw egg yolk has:
calcium ---- 22.74 mg - 23.24 mg,
vitamin A ---- 96.94 mcg - 147.07 mcg,
cholesterol ---- 209.16 mg - 212.64 mg,
vitamin D ---- 24.56 IU - 37.05 IU,
carbs ---- 0.00 g - 0.29 g,
fats ---- 5.12 g - 5.29 g,
protein ---- 2.67 g - 2.78 g.(Data retrieved from Simple Wai Calculator: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-calcsimple.html)

I was taking about 2000IU of Vitamin D

Why are you taking Vitamin D supplements, were your blood levels low?
2000 IU is 50 mcg Vitamin D.

Even RDA assuming minimal sun exposure, does not recommend that much vitamin D, 400 IU - 800 IU for different ages for males and females (Table 2, https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitam ... fessional/).
And the NIH says that too much Vitamin D can be bad for you: ">125nmol/L (>50 ng/ml), Emerging evidence links potential adverse effects to such high levels, particularly >150 nmol/L (>60 ng/mL)" (Table 1, https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitam ... fessional/).

To make sense of what NIH is saying, I took the average human has 4.7-5 L of blood for 150-160 pound person (Volume of Blood in a Human http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/LanNaLee.shtml), for calculation, and the assumption that 400 IU = 10 mcg, and using a calculator to convert ng to mcg.

That is 12000IU in 5L of blood ---->150 nmol/L (>60 ng/mL)
That is 10000IU in 5L of blood.---->125nmol/L (>50 ng/ml).
2000 IU is almost like 1/5 of the blood volume of Vitamin D that is in the high or too much range of Vitamin D.

[RRM]

How much (vitamin D, calcium) you need does not only differ individually, but also depends on the food you eat.
So, let us take a look at the foods that you can eat.

The problem with supplements is that you may readily throw the body out of balance.
Everything is related, so that imbalancing your body may have devastating effects. (sleep issues is one of them)
That is why we recommend consuming natural foods to get your nutrients;
the body readily adjusts absoprtion and excretion rates when the nutrients come from foods.

Consuming lots of animal foods, sufficient vitamin A is never an issue.
You should also have no problem whatsoever consuming sufficient vitamin D from natural foods,
as animal foods readily supply it abundantly.
So, you should not take supplementary vitamin D (nor A).
Instead, eat fish and egg yolks.
You should also have no problem consuming sufficient calcium either, as you need only 300 mg minimally.
215 grams of egg yolk (13 egg yolks) supplies you with 300 mg calcium.
Fish also contains calcium; 12 mg in 100 gram mackerel, 40 mg in tuna, and 13 mg in salmon.

Can you tolerate the 3.6% carbs in Brazil nuts?
The 10% carbs in hazelnuts?

[Stargazer1111]

So, my body has further issues as well. I can't eat fish or eggs because I break out in hives when I eat those things.

Any amount of carbohydrates is devastating to me. I get severe low blood sugar if I even eat a little bit. This is why I literally can only consume flesh meat and pure fat. Pretty much anything else causes major problems. My problem is that my pancreas makes too much insulin. Even too much protein causes the same problem, so I have to restrict protein intake to about 8-9 grams per meal. Anything more, and the same problem occurs as with carbs.

I did the math and it looks like I get about 130-140IU of vitamin D from the fat/meat. Vitamin A is fine because there is a lot in ghee.

I only get about 30 or so mg of calcium from the diet, which is why I take a little bit of it. Up to about 200mg from all sources.

I took vitamin D because of the recommendations of the vitamin D council. I am beginning to realize that this council is pretty much flat out wrong and that there are many people who have had the same reaction I did to vitamin D.

[Aytundra]

I switched from ghee to beef tallow because I realized that I was getting a lot of vitamin A, but did not change anything else. When I took my dose of calcium the other day, I started getting heart palpitations and had a massive panic attack (I've had this before when trying to take more than 2000IU of vitamin D, so I am fairly certain that my calcium level went too high). I figured this was because I dropped the vitamin A but did not drop the vitamin D, so the vitamin D was left unchecked by the vitamin A.

Ghee_fat1 + Ghee_fat2 + Ghee_fat3...+Ghee_vitamin1 + Ghee_vitamin2 _ + Ghee_vitamin3 + Ghee_vitaminA_8000IU...+ Ghee_molecule1...+ 2000IU vitamin D + 300 g calcium
Beef Tallow_fat1 + Beef Tallow_fat2 + Beef Tallow_fat3...+Beef Tallow_vitamiA_0IU...+Beef Tallow_molecule1...+200IU vitamin D + 300 g calcium.

I don't think you can solve the problem. Too many variables.

You were guessing: (Which I think made you felt confused.)
a) "calcium level went too high" ---> blaming Calcium
b) "vitamin D was left unchecked by the vitamin A" ---> blaming A
c) "but did not drop the vitamin D." ---> blaming D
you were blaming each variable you were concerned with, except the other unknown and unconsidered variables, such as other minerals, aminoacids, vitamins, fats, proteins, that may be present in ghee vs. tallow. Also there could always be that random chance that the symptom you felt was totally unrelated to the eating activity, but happened around the same time by coincidence, and was caused by something else.

For example some people taking coconut oil feel something in their chest:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1912&p=19253&hilit ... elt#p19253

[RRM]

I literally can only consume flesh meat and pure fat.

If that is the only food you can eat, i would do just that, and only add vitamins and minerals to the extend of advised minimum intakes.
Too much of any mineral / vitamin may throw your body out of balance even further.