acne-diet.org

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Mon 20 Nov 2006 20:48

nick wrote:but where is their research and reasoning behind their diet that they independently came to?

Ha, I didnt think of that...

GOOD thinking Nick!!!

Indeed. I still have that pack of paper that contains all my written notes from 1995 and on; about all my sources, as initially we didnt even have internet and I used to go to the library every day to write down everything on paper first.
And that site doesnt list those studies, because then they would have to use ours, or they would have to do some studying themselves first, as coming up with exactly the same sources would not make a good impression...

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Mon 20 Nov 2006 21:13

ehrrr

...
I also TOTALLY forgot about something else
something ESSENTIAL
....
which is...
...
We have the copyrights of the diet as we published a hard cover version of the free acne book when we published it online (as some people preferred to get a hard cover version anyway)...
And it says on www.freeacnebook.com :

© Copyright 2001 - 2002 Artists Cooperative Groove Union U.A. Amsterdam, The Netherlands

All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without written permission from the author.

ISBN 90-806424-1-X

How could I forget?
I have no idea...

nick · Post by **nick** » Tue 21 Nov 2006 00:34

Indeed. I still have that pack of paper that contains all my written notes from 1995 and on; about all my sources, as initially we didnt even have internet and I used to go to the library every day to write down everything on paper first.

Nothing like the old-school way.

And that site doesnt list those studies, because then they would have to use ours, or they would have to do some studying themselves first, as coming up with exactly the same sources would not make a good impression...

Exactly!

We have the copyrights of the diet as we published a hard cover version of the free acne book when we published it online (as some people preferred to get a hard cover version anyway)...

Ah-ha!
There we go.

But then again, the question remains if you want to pursue litigation?

I talked to some kid on acne.org and that is where he had a thread that linked this acne-diet.org and he was saying how they did initially credit you, but they must have taken that down from the site.

Their forums aren't up anymore either.

Indirectly related, the kid told me he would always break out from eating banana's, but he makes shakes with milk.
So, you have site that recommends a diet that isn't fully thought out either, it lacks completeness.

But litigation could be expensive.
I'll look into it and see what the deal is with such thangs.

avalon · Post by **avalon** » Tue 21 Nov 2006 01:06

I am so totally into original thinking.

Yet, as one aspiring original thinker, I know that the chance to combine raw eggs AND raw fish as a staple of an 'ACNE' diet is man, a reach... like lightning striking twice in the same spot. What are the odds.

Okay, raw eggs and raw fish- fine, but also as the acne solution it's just too coincidental and I don't believe it.

Do you know what I mean? Two,- fish and yolks, okay- but I don't know- Three,- add acne into it- no way...

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Tue 21 Nov 2006 11:09

Thanks Nick.
Can you please save that email containing 'the confession that there originally was a link to WaiSays'?

Okay, raw eggs and raw fish- fine, but also as the acne solution it's just too coincidental and I don't believe it.

We know, and they know (as Nick wrote).

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Wed 22 Nov 2006 00:44

How can someone have a copyright on the way nature works? I don't think I fully understand. I mean if I said raw food is healthy and came up with a raw diet, I don't think I can copyright the concept of eating raw food. I think if they came to the same conculusion as the wai diet they are fine.

I know in the computer field that you can clone something and be ok as long as you didn't derive your work from the someone else who has a copyrigh on their intelecutaly property. I think this is very similar.

It would be hard to prove they got the idea from here as opposed to coming to the same conclusion on their own. In the computer field it is easier to prove if they use exact lines of code or something that is identifiable like that.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Wed 22 Nov 2006 10:52

johndela1 wrote:How can someone have a copyright on the way nature works?

No, we cannot, indeed.
I havent read their current advice, but they used to have large sections of the book copied on their website, with a few wordings changed here and there. So, that wasnt hard to prove.

johndela1 · Post by **johndela1** » Thu 23 Nov 2006 05:08

they removed it?

If so, I don't think there is much that can be done.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Thu 23 Nov 2006 18:40

They had a couple of sites with generally the same info, containing large sections copied from waisays. I did not see that anymore, but i cannot recall the other urls. One was abate-acne.com or something, the other urls were similar.
Anyway, if the copied info is gone, fine by me.

avalon · Post by **avalon** » Fri 24 Nov 2006 15:29

nick wrote:

... but he makes shakes with milk.
So, you have site that recommends a diet that isn't fully thought out either, it lacks completeness.

I'm not one to pick, okay maybe I am

but nick, what about the ice cream and cottage cheese mentioned as munch foods, listed in menus. Until 'Dairy' is completely removed, as even a 'munch' food, I don't think you can say what you did.

Some might not have the same reaction to food-stuffs as Wai mentions.

Avalon

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Fri 24 Nov 2006 19:23

avalon wrote:Some might not have the same reaction to food-stuffs as Wai mentions.

You mean as some people daily smoke 2 packs of cigarettes for 50 years and still dont get lung cancer?
Thats gambling as far as i am concerned. But, of course, you are always free to do whatever you feel suits you best. Its all about choices and priorities.

avalon · Post by **avalon** » Sat 25 Nov 2006 05:44

I'm refering to acne in this case, as that is the complaint- acne breaking out.

RRM, your comment seems quite severe considering dairy is questioned, but not banned in the Wai Book as a whole. Wai could have stated flatly that no Dairy is allowed. This is not so. Is this not so? If not, what is so? So?

I am simply the messenger.

And not to get lost between the lines, if in fact they did plagerize as it seems, very skanky I say! skanky skanky, skanky!

nick · Post by **nick** » Sat 25 Nov 2006 17:31

avalon wrote:nick wrote:
... but he makes shakes with milk.
So, you have site that recommends a diet that isn't fully thought out either, it lacks completeness.
I'm not one to pick, okay maybe I am but nick, what about the ice cream and cottage cheese mentioned as munch foods, listed in menus. Until 'Dairy' is completely removed, as even a 'munch' food, I don't think you can say what you did.

Some might not have the same reaction to food-stuffs as Wai mentions.

Avalon

The person told me he whenever he eats banana's he breaks out which is because he ate it with milk in a milkshake.
So the person didn't understand that milk was causing the breakouts.
He was confusing cause and effect and the milk was the problem.
I'm guessing he didn't know that because of the diet he was following.

YouTube · Post by **RRM** » Sat 25 Nov 2006 19:09

avalon wrote:Wai could have stated flatly that no Dairy is allowed. This is not so. Is this not so? If not, what is so? So?

We also could have stated that no cooked food whatsoever is allowed (because of the toxic HCA etc.)
We created the munch foods not because cooked food is not that bad (HCA can cause cancer), but to give people 'some room to move', as for most people the strict diet is simply to strict.
Its as if we advised to smoke less; just 2 cigarettes a day instead of 2 packs a day. That doesnt mean we dont see the effects of cigarettes as very severe.

In the book we repeatedly advocated against the use of milk.
The munch foods are solely there to enable people to do the diet for whom the strict diet is simply too strict. Not because we think that milk or cooked foods are not that bad after all.

Avalon, can you please give the issue of munch foods a rest?
We are going in circles.

benzapp · Post by **benzapp** » Wed 29 Nov 2006 01:06

RRM wrote:Initially, they did have one page where they did say that it was the acne sample diet, but maybe that page has been removed?

BenZapp, do you remember that a couple of years ago, I send you that info about how a site had copied our acne sample diet? (back then we intended to sue them)
I guess you dont have that info anymore, do you?
Maybe I can retrieve it from an old computer that is laying around here somewhere...

Yeah, I'd have to search for it. I think this was post-gmail, so I should have it.

I sort of dropped the ball on it as I recall - I can possibly look into getting a US based attorney to work on it, on a contingent fee basis, so it doesn't cost anything unless you win.

We need to find out where this web server is located though - if it is in some anarchic country, it probably would be impossible to do anything.