amino acids.. to replace whey protein

[Rivera]

If we need to get more proteins from supplements, we just need to take more amino acids? And this time all the essentials?

[RRM]

If we need to get more proteins from supplements, we just need to take more amino acids?

If you lack protein, you just need to eat more animal food.
Only if you cannot consume more animal food due to acne susceptibility,
then you can use supplementary amino acids.
If you would take all essential amino acids, it would just mean a higher protein intake,
probably resulting in acne.
Solely by only taking the least available amino acids (methionine and possible phenylalanine),
you can increase overall protein quality without increasing protein intake.

[Rivera]

If you lack protein, you just need to eat more animal food.

I am doing but it starts to be expensive. So that's why I'm considering supplements. Plus, it's convenient; if I eat outside and I am not sure of how much proteins I got, I can take the pills.
So which aminos I should take and how much?

[RRM]

Eating more animal food is less expensive than supplements.
Sure, raw tuna is expensive, and tenderbeef as well, but chicken filet, for example, is quite cheap,
and chicken hearts even more so (3 euro / kg).
Tilapia filet can be quite cheap as well (8 euro / kg)

But if you insist on consuming supplementary amino acids, its most effective to take 500 mg methionine daily.
If you think you need more, take 1000 mg methionine plus 500 mg phenylalanine daily, which is the max.

[Mr. PC]

Could you maybe link (or give me) me a 101 about eating chicken fillets? Chicken hearts might be a little too much for me.

[RRM]

I dont know whats a "101", but i guess its a short introduction/guide.
Only buy it in a popular big brand (nationwide) supermarket with a very good reputation.
This means its a bit more expensive, but thats worth it.
Why?
So that you are sure that the regulations and controls are very strict.
Buy small packages.
Dont eat it if it smells 'funny' (after a few days in the fridge).
Enjoy (though the taste is bland).

[Oscar]

I dont know whats a "101", but i guess its a short introduction/guide.

Yep. It comes from the numbering of basic courses, which can be 101, 102, 103, etc. After the basic level one can progress to the next level courses, 201, 202, 203, etc. In language '101' evolved to being: 'the most basic', like: Fish Cleaning 101, or Explaining Funny English Expressions 101.

[Rivera]

But if you insist on consuming supplementary amino acids, its most effective to take 500 mg methionine daily.
If you think you need more, take 1000 mg methionine plus 500 mg phenylalanine daily, which is the max.

Can I add carnosine to that without problem? This one is not for muscles; I have a health problem and I read somewhere that it could help so I just want to try for check.

[RRM]

Can I add carnosine to that without problem?

I think so, because its a (antioxidant and anti-glycation) dipeptide of (beta)alanine and histidine.
What are the guidelines for taking the camosine?
If its okay to take it before or after a meal, then its safe.
It must be safe, as this peptide is also naturally present in your blood (particularly nervous system (in neurons) and skeletal muscle).

[Rivera]

(EDIT) copied from another thread (/EDIT)

But why, can't I buy many amino acids separately (which you find in the protein pack, like L-Isoleucine, L-Leucine, L-Lysine, L-Threonine ,L-Tryptophan, L-Valineand etc...)
and take them at the dose I want.
Why don't you propose things like this? When someone wants more than the L-methionine and L-phenylalaline supplements.

[RRM]

(EDIT) copied from another thread (/EDIT)

Because you already have all those others in your blood;
they are already there, as our diet contains too much of all those other amino acids,
in comparison to methionine/cysteine and phenylalanine/tyrosine.

That is what protein quality is about: the ratios of amino acids.
In food in general, methionine is the most under-represented amino acid,
followed by phenylalanine.
(100 grams) Dried whey powder, for example contains, per 12 grams of protein:

200 mg methionine/cysteine
480 mg phenylalanine/tyrosine
1020 mg threonine
1150 mg lysine
1400 mg leucine
1490 mg aspartic acid
2400 mg glutamic acid
(and more)

Whereas glutamic acid and aspartic acid can also be made inside the body,
simply by using the remainders of other redundant amino acids.
And regarding the other ones, this is what a 80 kg man needs, per day:

384 to 1040 mg methionine
264 to 1120 mg phenylalanine
432 to 560 mg threonine
520 to 960 mg lysine
736 to 1120 mg leucine

So, in order to meet your minimal methionine requirements,
you would need to consume 23,04 grams of whey protein. (192 grams of whey powder)
But this would also supply you with

1958 mg threonine
2208 mg lysine
2688 mg leucine
2861 mg aspartic acid
4608 mg glutamic acid

The last 2 are already redundant, as you can easily make them yourself.
And in order to fulfill your minimal requirements, these are redundant too:

1526 mg threonine
1688 mg lysine
1952 mg leucine

So, why would you want to supplement these?
You already are ingesting way too much of these amino acids!
The only amino acids that are now available only minimally, are methionine and cystein,
so that if you want to use more protein for (re)construction purposes,
you just need to supplement with methionine,
so that after all, you can use some of all that redundant threonine, lysine and leucine as well....
which you already had consumed...

[MartyD]

Ah just wondering if these are ok in terms of liquid free amino acids supplements, not going to take em till im clear but is that the brand you said you used to use RRM, Solgar?

http://www.solgar.ie/details/189/amino- ... apsules-50
http://www.solgar.ie/details/150/amino- ... apsules-30

[RRM]

No, they came in glass capsules.
But actually, the info in this thread is outdated.
See: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2813

[Rivera]

When reducing proteins, would it better to reduce fish consumption (but it's fish from breeding, not wild) or try to cut L-phenylalanine (500mg) & L-methionine 500mg and just keep 500mg methionine? I don't know exactly how much I want to reduce fish, but I will try gradually and check with my perfomances. Maybe 10 or 20 gr. I know high consumption of proteins is bad so with would be the safest in this case on the long term?
Pills are capsule powder and ingredients are: hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, microcrystalline cellulose, l-leucine, vegetable magnesium stearate, silica. Nothing else.

[RRM]

When reducing proteins, would it better to reduce fish consumption (but it's fish from breeding, not wild) or try to cut L-phenylalanine (500mg) & L-methionine 500mg and just keep 500mg methionine?

the supplements are much more expensive, so i would opt for not taking them.

I know high consumption of proteins is bad

How high is your daily protein intake? (total from all foods consumed)

Pills are capsule powder

If you are susceptible to acne, you dont want these.